Tuesday, August 25, 2009

Mann v. Carson On Health Care Reform

Give the first round in the 7th District health care care debate to long-time Indianapolis resident Gerry Mann. During a speech before the Indianapolis Downtown Rotary Club, Mann challenged the figures U.S. Rep. Andre Carson was tossing around about the number of uninsured Americans. Carson pegs the number at about 46 million, which he bases on U.S. census data. Mann contended that the number Carson was using includes illegal aliens. I checked the most recent U.S. census data and discovered that the 46 million figure used by Carson includes about 10 million uninsured foreign nationals. The census data indicates that foreign nationals are 2.5 times as likely to be uninsured as our American citizen population. Carson accused Mann of spreading myths. The WISH-TV video of the exchange between Carson and Mann appears above.

Sorry, Rep. Carson, but foreign nationals are not American citizens the last time I read the Immigration and Nationality Act. I think you owe Mr. Mann an apology. Carson is not alone in making this mistake. President Obama repeatedly uses the 46 million uninsured figure that includes foreign nationals, counting them as American citizens. This is not a surprise given the fact that Obama is unconstitutionally masquerading as a natural born citizen eligible to hold the office of President of the United States. When Obama and Carson say that the Democratic government-run health care plan will provide coverage to 46 million Americans, they invite criticism that their plan will require U.S. citizens to pay for health insurance coverage for illegal aliens.

Further, the immigration reform legislation that both Obama and Carson support will provide legal status and the possibility of citizenship to most of the illegal population in American currently, which means they will qualify for government benefits as a result of immigration reform, if not directly from the Obama health care plan. Also, I can assure you that the Health & Hospital Corporation spends millions annually providing free health care services to illegal aliens; however, you'll never get that information from them. The HHC refuses to document how much it spends on free health care services for foreign nationals because it wouldn't be politically correct to allow taxpayers to know that bit of information.

UPDATE: True to form, a government-paid worker for the Democratic Party, Terry Burns, is already trashing citizen Mann as just another "teabagger" at his blog, Burns attacks Mann for being a successful businessman and questions whether the 79-year-old receives Medicare. It's just incredible how shameless Democrats have become in their complete disdain for Americans like Mann who have lived the American Dream.


artfuggins said...

Mann contended that it included illegal immigrants.....a foreign national is not an illegal immigrant. Round 1...Carson

Gary R. Welsh said...

The foreign national figure does indeed include illegal immigrants, Wilson.

Wilson46201 said...

art is not me, but you are so dishonest Gary. Don't you ever get disgusted at the lies you proudly propagate?

Gary R. Welsh said...

This is getting old, Wilson. You try to post, knowing that I won't publish most of your comments because they are so full of vile name-calling and defamatory content. Within a minute of your post, along comes an artfuggins post that basically says the same thing but is toned down from the Wilson46201 typical rants. You need to adopt a new schtick, Wilson.

Gary R. Welsh said...

Note that there are more than 10 million insured foreign nationals. That would include many of legal alien visa workers and green card holders who typically are provided health insurance through their employer.

Seth M. Ward said...

It's disappointing that people can't have civil debate without name calling, intimidation and what not.

I am one of the many working class that does not have insurance.

It is not offered by my job, nor after considerable searching can I find a personal health care plan to help off set the ENORMOUS cost of getting treated for basis illness or other medical issues.

It's okay to use the money I pay in taxes to give people on Medicade or Medicare health care, but it's not okay for me to get health care because I am not rich, in shape or part of a large company?

I guess I'm just your bitch then?

No wonder people pull on a hoodie, move into the mountains and start writing crazy manifesto's......

Gary R. Welsh said...

Seth, Let us verify your story. Who is your employer, what is your income range and your age. I hear too many of these false health care stories. Trust but verify.

Sean Shepard said...

The actual percentage of that 46 million that is chronically uninsured and involuntarily so is between 8.6 and 12.5 million.

Everyone else either makes over $50,000 a year, is not a citizen (10 million is a good number to use there), is "temporarily" uninsured (90 days or less) or voluntarily choses not to have coverage.

Regardless, that doesn't mean government should be in the prepaid health care, insurance, car, bank or any other business.

Funny how all of the people on the left used to scream "fascist" at people on the right (showing a lack of understanding as to what fascism really is and how close it is related to socialism) but aren't screaming now that government is co-opting whole industries rather than fixing the underlying policy problems that led to problems in the first place.

Lots of health care 'reform' can be enacted without government taking over or trying to compete against private industry.

POPA said...


It appears to me that both of these men might be right and wrong. If the number of 46 million Americans includes 10 million illegal immigrants, than Carson is wrong. But Mann is wrong to say the bill will cover illegal aliens because it says no such thing, and in sum, I'm left to chide, "So if it's ONLY 35 MILLION uninsured Americans, now you don't care, Republican Party? (What exactly is the magic cut-off for your compassion?)

Separately, I don't find it at all inappropriate to ask a guy who says we're walking down a path to socialism whether he's using Medicare. We ALL know that Medicare recipients almost all receive more in benefits than what they've paid in, which is why the system is going broke. I would bet that a 79-year old has already received his money back plus interest, and he should cut a check to the government to stop these "transfer payments." Even if he hasn't yet "covered," NOBODY with a straight face can say Medicare isn't a "social insurance" program for the elderly, so Mr. Mann should spend his time trying to get it repealed.

I have no respect for seniors (and Congressmen for that matter) who feel they are entitled to "socialistic" health care coverage that they will deny to other Americans. What about people who will die because they didn't have coverage so they couldn't afford preventive treatment that might have detected cancer? Is Mr. Mann going to make sure all the Medicare taxes they paid gets sent to their heirs? I bet not.

In short, Mann should sit down and shut up about "creeping socialism" until he stops accepting its benefits. At least then I could look at him without thinking, "What a blazing hypocrite."

By the way, Terry Burns doesn't attack him for "living the American dream." In fact, his post says he won't attack Mann for being wealthy. But I suppose that wouldn't read as good in your post.

Indy4U2C said...

Carson is an ignoramus!

...and Wilson, we all know you post under your alias artfuggins frequently! Be careful about your (Democrat) lies, Wilson...Abdul may do another revelation as he did in the past with IP's

Downtown Indy said...

It seems that Gerry's problem is he worked to get where he is, rather than inheriting his job from his grandmother.

But the whole illegal vs foreign national is a smokescreen argument. The true problem is it's a government-created, government-(mis)managed system, taking the power of decisionmaking out of the People's hands. We used to call that 'playing God' but now we call it 'single payer healthcare.'

And no matter WHAT it is TODAY, if it becomes law it will be chipped away, bloated, morphed into something completely different, more costly and more disfunctional every year from now on.

Look at the IRS tax code for an example of how these things work.

The 'Health Code' will become equally unfathomable and complex and we may well have the cottage industry of 'healthcode application preparers' spring up to file the necessary paperwork to get medical treatment. If one lives long enough to get it, that is.

Blog Admin said...

My thing about health care is we're already paying tons for it. Those of us with private insurance pay once for that, and then collectively support the various public programs (VA, Medicare, Medicaid, etc...) in taxes.

Now, ideally, we'd completely overhaul the way government runs so we don't have the mess we do now.

But politics is the art of the possible, and that doesn't sound very possible.

I'd much rather conservative leaning politicians and think tanks put forth a proposal to counter the liberal proposals, so that at least the money can be used responsibly.

It's not a GREAT situation, but at least it'd be a responsible solution.

indyernie said...

Student the Republicans have one but Obama and the Speaker Of The House won't let it he heard.

Seth M. Ward said...

I am an Independent contractor for Yellow Cab, I am 37, I have no reason to lie to you. If you know of an insurance company willing to provide insurance to a 37 year old over weight male that just quit smoking, I'd be happy to hear of them. Oh, let me re-clarify that. An insurance company that provides reasonably costing insurance. No disrespect, but when someone brings a valid point to the table, there is no reason to demand things or questions someones integrity.