Tuesday, January 15, 2008

Are Hovey Street Murders Tied To Pea Shake Houses?

A Fox59 News report tonight on the Hovey Street shootings, which left 2 mothers and 2 infants dead last night, reported that neighbors said the home at 3283 N. Hovey was known for drugs and gambling. A WTHR report said the home was equipped with several exterior surveillance cameras, although it was unclear whether they were functioning at the time of the shootings. In August, a break-in at the home was reported to police in August during which $5,000 worth of items were stolen, including furs according to WTHR. And then WTHR had this about a similar, although not deadly incident in September:

For the victims, it had to be a horrible repeat of history. Just three months ago, two gunmen targeted the same home on Hovey Street. Hunt told police at the time "she was pleading for the life of everyone in the house."

One gunman threatened to kill them if they didn't tell them where they'd find a man they were looking for. Using a victim's scarf, the gunmen covered up a child's face, but did not hurt the child. That child was not one of Monday's victims.

The attackers left. The man they were looking for, the man who monitored security cameras mounted around the victim's house, told police then the men may have wanted him because he was close to a homicide victim.

And then the Star reported on what police found inside the home after the shootings:

Police found two handguns outside near the shooting scene, Mount said.

Inside the home, officers found a safe, about a pound of suspected marijuana, an electronic scale, ammunition and three long guns, according to a report.

WTHR also reported that a neighbor found a gun on the ground a few houses away, perhaps dropped by the two black men eyewitnesses saw fleeing the area in a black SUV with a Colts license plate immediately after the shootings. Who knows what all they made off with from the house before police arrived.

The guns, drugs, surveillance cameras, safe in the house, prior break-ins in recent months and reports by neighbors the house was known for gambling and drugs makes you wonder if there isn't a connection to Indianapolis' notorious pea shake houses.


Anonymous said...

Throw in a satellite TV dish and you have a full-blown pea shake house.

Advance Indiana said...

Good point, anon 11:31. I couldn't tell from the news coverage of the house if it had a satellite dish.

Anonymous said...

It was pretty much a drug house at least. If you noticed the Indy Star article, the guy who was on the phone from jail is a well-known drug dealer. Betcha this will turn out to be a robbery of drug money, or a territorial dispute. The only reason you would kill those children is to send a message, and I think the dealer who is operating that house was the target.

Anonymous said...


Are there any actual reports on who, if anyone, was actually a resident of the home? Did either of the victims live there? Was it occupied as a residence or just used as a gathering place?

I'm sure investigators know all this, just haven't seen any media reports.

Baretta said...

Thank you Sheriff Anderson for the poignant, well thought out, intelligent, concise, and professional comments that you delivered on every news broadcast that I saw yesterday regarding the murders of these poor victims. You are a true leader. I hope your rantings don't fu@k up any future prosecutions (or appeals if convicted) of the perpetrators if investigators develop suspects in this case.

And you can take that to da bank!

Anonymous said...

Frank Anderson's selective (and too rare) TV rantings are a disgrace.

What a pathetic attempt to get public support. Just do your job, Frank.

The TV news reported this morning, that the women were tenants, not owners of the home, and at least one (if not both) of them had lived there for many months.

If that kind of drug paraphenalia was found there, along with guns, pot and scales, one of both of the deceased ladies had to know what was going on. They knowingly put babie sin harm's way.

That in no way excuses the murders. But these wild men wanred the women, and graphically covered the face of one of th babies weeks ago, in a not-so-subtle warning.

This is going to get ugly. Wanna bet that one, or both, of the young women were girlfriend(s) of one of the shooter's drug war enemies?

Unfortunately for the victims and their families, their pasts will now be dragged thorugh the media, as this case unravels. There is no other way out.

Anonymous said...

SPECULATION .....It seems like the INDYU haters have migrated to this site...that is too bad...this is usually a civilized site.

Anonymous said...

SPECULATION .....It seems like the INDYU haters have migrated to this site...that is too bad...this is usually a civilized site.

Anonymous said...

6:43, I'm nnot sure who peed in your cornflakes, but the items reported above were similarly reported by all media last night and this morning.

Please point out any "speculation."

Redhead said...

Good! I hope IndyU people have migrated to this sight. I have been looking for them!

Anonymous said...

I have empathy for the children and the families but those mothers might as well had pulled the triggers themselves. Shame on them for putting those babies in harms way.

Advance Indiana said...

The Star's report of the items stolen from the home during the August break-in varies with one of the TV stations which reported furs being among the items stolen. The Star says, "Police had been called to the home at other times. In August, burglars stole $5,000 worth of sweat suits, jewelry worth $250, a $4,500 plasma TV and a $200 table, according to a report." A $4,500 plasma TV in that little house and $5,000 worth of sweat suits?

Anonymous said...

And just now, WIBC reported the home had surveillance cams outside. It is uncertain if they were working the night of the murders.

Stop and think: how many of your friends or co-workers, have: $4500 of jogging suits, furs, surveillance cams, small scales, a brick of pot, a safe, guns, and two young women with babies, in their home?

There is plenty of tragedy to go around here, but where were the grandparents or other family members? If I'm visiting my 24-year-old daughter's house to see my grandbaby, and there are these kinds of visual signals all over the place, don't think for a minute that I will sit still for it. That baby is out of the house with ME, and then I worry about getting help for my daughter. And I call her female friend's parents, and warn them about the potential fate of their grandbaby.

It just seems to me that too often there are readily-available obvious clues about potential harm. Ignored.

Still, the murderers need to be caught. Fast. There are likely plenty of pieces of evidence to get their identities pretty quickly.

Anonymous said...

I'd guess that the murderers will get caught, tried, and punished by their rivals before they get caught by the police.

Anonymous said...

Someone needs to remind me? Is Frank Anderson still new sheriff in town? What a joke he is and what a joke Bart Peterson was to put this idiot in chareg of law enforcement! The question remains, is Greg Ballard any better? NOT!

Anonymous said...

Greg Ballard already has the answer for the increased violence in our city. He is sending out Olgen Williams and his children to make a speech about stopping violence!
Thanks Mayor Ballard. I am sure that will work! Maybe they can also do a Rap Song and pass out t-shirts!

Anonymous said...

Gary, nothing appears to link this with the illegal numbers racket.
This was a very typical Drug House. The video cams are standard operating equipment for Drug Houses. It takes just a few minutes to set a system up. The sat dish was for entertainment only. Shifts of dealers spend an awful lot of time in these places 24/7 so a dish is standard now too.
Even with the scales and firearms I would say this was strictly a retail operation rather than a stash house. The stash house is the real gold mine if cops can hit 'em. The retailers just post on low bond and open up again the next day, often at the same location.
There had to be a lot of traffic at this house so my guess is that it won't take long to find out who the killer are.
They have most likely left town but they will eventually get caught.
When they are caught you will find that they have criminal records and were only back on the streets to avoid jail overcrowding.
Retail drug dealers are not doing any time even on multiple arrests.
The answer? Build more jail space and more courts. There are thousands like these killers walking the streets who were released on low bond.
If the City doesn't want to build more jail space then this will continue.
Indianapolis is an Open City for crooks and the crimes keep multiplying.

Anonymous said...

From all the media evidence this seems more like a distribution house for street level, probably not tied with pea shake, even though there may certainly been gambling (dice games, etc) going on among those hanging out there. Wouldn't be uncommon for someone to let women/children live in the house as a front/monitor/clerk. (ever watch "Weeds"?)

A traditional pea shake would have more traffic of people not involved in the business coming for daily shakes that the higher levels in the drug operation wouldn't want.

Eclecticvibe said...

Instead of building more jail cells to incarcerate someone for simply selling marijuana, how about decriminalizing the substance all together? Perhaps the money saved from the incarcerations can be used to reduce tax burdens. If pot was sold and regulated like alcohol, this whole problem of dangerous distribution houses simply goes away. Potheads get their weed, the government gets the taxes levied on the pot, and everyone is happy.

Anonymous said...

It's a slippery slope, eclectic.

It's illegal for a reason. I've seen two lives ruined by pot.

Yeah, some other subtances should probably be illegal, too...but the connection oft made between pot and alcohol isn't even close. The science is not totally conclusive, but it's close enough.

Pot is more often than not a gateway drug. And even if you only use pot, it is distributed by a series of unregulated street folks.

What other substance that you ingest has this kind of loose distribution trail? You have no idea where that stuff came from.
It could be laced with chemicals, or worse. The supply chain is a scary situation at best.

That is not necessarily an argument for regulating it. It is, however, an argument for keeping things as they are for now.

It's just that there is a rapidly-growing subculture which accepts it. Readily. And that group is larger than it's ever been.

Eclecticvibe said...

So does prohibiting marijuana lessen the harm it causes? Does it stop anyone from using marijuana? I'd argue that the incarceration causes more harm to the user than the drug ever could. Marijuana is a gateway drug to our prison system. I do believe in offering help to those who have addiction issues with any substance. I just don't believe that outlawing marijuana provides any benefit to our society. Lots of things are bad for us. Lots of things can ruin lives. Lots of things can be addictive. Pot happens to be one of them. I worry less about the supply chain. Just because marijuana isn't packaged by a large corporate supply chain, doesn't mean it must be prohibited. While we prohibited alcohol, the supply chain was similar. For thousands of years people have used cannabis with no regulation and no supply chain to control the product. Our problem comes when we relegate something for which there is such a high demand to the realm of illegal activity. Then rather than coming from legitimate supply chains, it becomes an underground enterprise, and we wind up with the end result of the Hovey Street murders.

indyernie said...

What is in the safe?

Who owns the property?

Are the owner and dealer one and the same?

Is anybody connected with this property politically connected?

Something's fishy.

Anonymous said...

Eclecticvibe, I think you're more right than wrong. It's a difficult issue. Except:

Your supply chain argument is weak at best. Ask any ER doc. Countless folks end up there, and, when their ailment is fully determined, it's a bad bunch of pot.

True, sometimes bad bunches of chili soup send folks to the ER. But except for the gastro effects, rarely do other things result from food poisoning. AnN certainly no addiction.

One ER doc friend in California estimates one-tenth of his work is due to improper use of drugs, and almost half of that is a problem with the cleanliness of supply. Ironically, he aruges for complete legalization to have the FDA regulate this just like they regulate penicillin.

It's a tough issue for me, and I admit I'm not completely objective. One very dear friend is partially disabled as a result of some bad pot in 1995--it was laced with some Drano or some such nonsense. He was a researcher, a contributing member of society, and now we all pay for his upkeep.

I'm not typically a fan of government regulation. But the FDA, even when presidents like Bush politicize it, has a remarkable record for product safety. It's unmatched in the world.

Maybe I need more time to come over to the dark side, er, your side.

Be patient.

Yet and still, regardless of supply chain integrity, these murders sound more and more like they resulted from good old-fashioned turf wars.

Which has nothing to do with the purity of the street pot.

I hope I'm wrong. It's a very sad case. It looks as if two babies who had no say in their mothers' potential improper activities, are now in their eternal home as a result of their mothers' activities.

ROACH said...

does indy have a drug house ordinance like fort waynes?
its not the drugs and gambling that breeds crime. its people, and base human greed. its about the money, or lack thereof.
desparate pepole, or so-called "players" are the types of people who frequent these 'dives", after hours joints, illegal casinos, drug houses. wanting to score some easy money. I'm not a social scientist, or law enforcement /justice expert, but in short, i'd say "its the economy, stupid"- reminds me of the Harlem of NY during the 60's, and the days of "american gangster".
Malcolm X also documented the poverty and despair of the ghetto- which is universal, thus the appeal of Barack Obama, and hope for the black man in america.

Anonymous said...

anon 610 am hit the nail on the head. nuff said.

Anonymous said...

Olgen Williams cannot pronounce or spell violence!!

Anonymous said...

Nice try connecting this with pea shake houses, but you lose. There are tons of homes in central Indiana with pounds of weed, scales, guns and cameras as they're paranoid. Silly rabbit.

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Anonymous said...

5:31 PM EST - please. You must be a narc. The only time anyone I know - out of dozens of people over 3 decades - has gotten bad pot is when it wasn't strong enough.

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Anonymous said...

9:38, no, I'm not a narc, and surely you jest.

Advance Indiana said...

I appreciate the discussion, but I'm concerned about people naming certain individuals or businesses being associated with drug activities, particularly when they are posted anonymously.

Anonymous said...

anon 958am,

Ballard certainly can't send out the police because he has no control over them right now. Hopefully that will change soon so he can make a real impact.

Anonymous said...

Prosecutor Newman will NOT bust the peashake houses because they use them for a source of law enforcement informants. They simply agree to bust the house periodically, so they can have a paper trail that demonstrates they've made a good faith effort to the DOJ. The Peashake houses are to have around $5000.00 on premises and are contacted ahead of time to the assistant police Chief Wyatt.

Isn't that ironic. We should inquire of Jon Elrod IF we send him to congress will he DEMAND the DOJ investigate racketeering in Marion county?

Anonymous said...

Scott Newman can not bust a Pea Shake House because he shakes so much he can not even pee by himself. Bust a Pea Shake or Pee while he Shakes?? I am confused!
What a joke. Good choice Ballard!

Anonymous said...

I feel that some people are insesitive to the situation this young lady did not have a good life and had nowhere to go its sad to see that some people are not paying attention to whats wrong the KILLINGS. I hope Dick or the owner of the home is arrested in connection

Anonymous said...

sorry people all of you should get a life. first off there are thousands and i mean thousands of houses in indianapolis that have everything in them that the hovey street house had.it is not now and never was a peashake house!all of the peashake houses in indianapolis are well known by all black residents and most white who care to look!they have been in the neighborhoods for more than my 50 plus years and have always been sanctioned by the city government and the prosecutor himself. but since we got a black sherriff they all of a sudden became an issue "what are you going to do about the peashake houses?" anderson should have said"the same thing the last 100 white sherriffs have done, take my cut" grow up indianapolis you wanted a big fancy town and now you have big fancy crime. they go hand in hand oh and by the way..POLICE DO NOT STOP CRIME..everytime there is a news worthy crime we keep hearing promises of more police. you could throw 1000 more police right in this neighberhood and you would not stop one nickel bag from being sold! You know why?? because police show up AFTER the crime,if ever!Think about it,do you think 3000 more firemen would reduce the number of fires in the city?? of course not because they get there AFTER the fire!Quality of life and quality jobs stop crime..and you crazy people believe you can tell a peashake house by a sattelite dish.there are at most 5 peashake houses in the city at any given time.each operator and i believe there are just 2 men who own them. the neighberhood knows who these men are,the police know who these men are and local government knows who these men are because everyone has gotten there cut for years. and only people who think you can spot a peashake house by a dish would believe otherwise.by the way everyone around here knows that the hovey house was used maybe a few times a month for card games for a few older players. just so you know..YOU CAN ONLY PLAY PEASHAKE AT A HOUSE SANCTIONED BY DOWNTOWN. IF NOT YOUR HOUSE WOULD BE CLOSED DOWN IN 60 MINUTES,NOT 60 YEARS!!Put away the starwars cds people, open your eyes, your leaders are skrewing you

beentheredonethat said...

Anonymous, you've spoken truth one several subjects. You sound like you KNOW the game either from a legal standpoint or from being IN the game. Unfortunately people like you aren't the ones that anyone will listen to. The pea shake house idea doesn't make any sense at all. Bottom line is both ladies in that home knew what the house was about. What is unfortunate is they assumed all was well because someone provided them with a false sense of security, and enough time passed and they settled back into their comfort zone. When its all said and done when something is going to happen video cameras are not going to stop it. We have all gotten some type of warning whether it was because of some crap or on the job and it's up to you as a person to take that warning and run with it. There is six years difference between my age and those girls age and a warning like the first one they got is all it takes when a child is put in harms way. What happened in this story goes back to how these people were raised and the lack of accountability that parents have for their grown children

Anonymous said...

It dont really matter if it was part of a pea shake house.that still dont give nobody the right to kill nobody,so whoever did should be n jail or n hell for kill them people.Them babys did not do shit...

Anonymous said...

Am I the only one who thinks the picture of the woman in the lower right-hand corner looks like a mug shot?

blackbeauty's said...

what the hell if it was a mugshot you twit...that's irrevalant in this case 4 people are dead...i agree those girls did put those babies in harms way...but at the same time their not here to tell the story... so dumba$$ pray for the families and not worry about a mugshot f--king moron!