Tuesday, January 29, 2008

Anti-Immigrant Push By Senate Has Consequences

An anti-immigrant push led by Sen. Mike Delph will have consequences on Indiana's economy many business leaders are warning, but the desire to embrace D.C. Stephenson's "Americanization" agenda from the 1920s is just too politically attractive to lawmakers representing largely white districts who want to play political football with Hispanic workers in the state. The Star's Dan McFeely writes:

While the legislation is welcomed by some as a way to crack down on illegal immigration, others say the loss of up to 85,000 undocumented workers would have
a far-reaching impact on Hoosiers.

"Ag jobs are often ones that are not the first jobs people will take," said Kent Yeager, public policy director for Indiana Farm Bureau. "A lot of people in this country are just not willing to do that work."

Without a reliable immigrant work force, Yeager said, producers of fruits and vegetables, livestock and dairy will be forced to look elsewhere to find workers -- and may even shift their operations to other countries.

"If you don't like being dependent on foreign oil, how will you like being dependent on foreign food?" Yeager said.

That is a message state lawmakers are hearing from opponents -- chambers of commerce, manufacturers, home builders, restaurant owners and Hispanic leaders -- as they debate Senate Bill 335, which would crack down on business owners who knowingly hire illegal workers. Hiring and harboring illegal immigrants is already a federal offense. Violators can be jailed and heavily fined.

McFeely's article focuses on the economic impact of Delph's legislation, but the impact on Hoosier families could be much greater. It threatens to tear apart many U.S. citizen families. Thousands of U.S.-born Hoosiers are married to Hispanics who are in the country illegally. Many of those households have American-born children. If one of the spouses is unable to work, it will wreak economic havoc on these families. Some opponents would argue that is the ulterior motive behind the legislation. About 5% of Indiana's population is Hispanic. It is estimated that there are at least 85,000 undocumented workers in Indiana, most of whom are Hispanic. It's funny that the same people who are always talking about family values are backing legislation which is so anti-family for some Indiana residents.

33 comments:

tjefferson said...

"Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free."
The Statue of Liberty

"As long as their white."
The Hon. Mike Delp

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, but the invasion must be stopped! This is an invasion of our country and if it is not stopped, our economy will just die.

We cannot tax Americans to pay for welfare, education, food, jail space of the invaders and expect that Americans can afford the costs. We must defend the country.

Anonymous said...

So, does "undocumented" still mean "illegal"? Isn't the purpose of this proposed bill meant to help enforce our laws against illegal entry into our country? Consequences are the results of actions, and how do you term the bill "anti-immigrant" which it is not. Maybe "anti-ILLEGAL immigrant" would be more representative and accurate reporting.

Advance Indiana said...

What I try to get people to understand in this debate was our own government's complicity in allowing so many people to enter and work in the U.S. illegally in the first instance. There are many things our own government did to encourage illegal aliens to come to the U.S. I fully support enforcing the borders. I don't think someone should be able to simply walk across the border w/o inspection and integrate into the U.S. The fact is that we have 12 million here now, and it is simply not rational to think you can remove all of these people from the U.S. without creating major economic and civil unrest.

Anonymous said...

Further to AI's comment: 12 million is only 3% of the US total population. Far from an invasion.

100 years ago the proportion of non-native-born residents was close to 20%, and in those days it was relatively easy (by today's immigration standards) to just walk in the front door at Ellis Island.

It should be that easy again. Then we wouldn't have an "illegal immigration problem".

Anonymous said...

CRIMINALS are anti-family. Law abiding citizens are pro-family.

This country was based on laws and the citizens obeying the laws.

Now, thanks to all of you liberals and "feel gooders" the only rule is, "if it makes you feel good, it's OK."

That's why this country is falling apart.

All the Mexicans have to do is follow the law like the hundreds of thousands of immigrants before them.

Besides that, they are costing the TAXPAYERS an extea 338 BILLION dollars a year to support.

Anonymous said...

This, too, is dumb:

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/01/indiana-may-ban.html

Anonymous said...

Maybe this will answer your question. Nah-h-h...probably not. You already have your mind made up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ&feature=related

No sense in letting facts get in the way.

Anonymous said...

9:53 what are you thinking??????

12 million is an invasion we cannot let stand. Our economy cannot absorb the drain on our social network!

We don't have enough prison space for the invader-criminals.

tjefferson said...

I can't believe how poor my spelling was in my previous post. I hadn't had enough coffee. Sorry.

"Invasion." Invaders have a nefarious purpose, an organized agenda of harm or conquest. Poor people seeking a better life are not invaders.

That language belies either fear of what is different or simple racism, or both. It is, like bigotry of any kind, illogical. It comes from the deepest, most primitive parts of our brain. It results from fear of the "other," the deep-seated assumption that "other" equals threat. It's closer to our animal instincts than our humanity.

Johnny said...

I feel that the lawmakers are finally doing their jobs. This issue must be address, the fact that they say Americans will not do the jobs that the illegals want do is a misleading statement. In fact all the industrys mention are the very jobs Americans will do, but not for 5:15 and hour are less. These busineses have been breaking Civil Rights laws for years and without any consequences. You want to know why their is rising crime in violence in our city and nation. Look no futher, they the illegal immigrants have taken our jobs, and jobs sent back to their country. If you where to look at all these hotels, restaurants, housing construction etc. One can easily see what is truly going on in our society. Three strikes in ten years is two soft, it should be three strikes in one year, thats my stance on the issues. Our economy will not fail, because their are plenty of our citizens ready to return to work.

Anonymous said...

I appreciate your clarification Advance Indiana and I agree with you that our Federal government is largely to blame for the immigration mess we are in and I do not think we can deport 12 or maybe 20 million people - many having been here for many years. We do need to get immediate control of our borders for too many reasons to go into here.

Not, this is to you tjefferson - Your thinking is weak and your insults are offensive to any who are trying to be fair about this situation. For you to put forth that all who want our laws obeyed are racists and bigots is simply an attempt to win your side of the argument using that old, tired, and maddening "race card". Further, it does not matter why people are coming to this country -12 mllion people here illegally and unidentified can be called an "invasion" even though that was not my post comment. Lastly, if I am ever poor and seeking a better life can I move into your home without your approval for support? I am sure that you would understand if I use that spare bedroom and eat a little of your food as I seek a better life. You can call me an "undocumented house guest" - otherwise, I might consider you a racist and uncaring person. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

And what about the children who are American citizens by birth but living in households parented by illegals? Do we send the parents back and the children to foster care?

Just more pandering by Delph and Co for the minions...

tjefferson said...

Anon. 12:23

"When you did it unto the least of these my brothers and sisters, you did it to me."

It's interesting that you aren't clamboring with this intensity about enforcing laws rountinely broken by people who look like you. If you would put as much heat and energy into demanding an end to violent crimes that cost lives, white collar crimes that cost us billions of dollars, or government corruption, we might just solve some real problems. But those situations aren't so ripe for pandering politicians and good old-fashioned xenophobes. Ask yourself, why do you care so much about THIS particular type of criminality. If you're honest, you'll admit that you just don't like these people, pure and simple.

Anonymous said...

I'm neither soft nor unthinking. Clearly the illegals are coming here for jobs and clearly they are contributing to our economy and clearly they are taking jobs no one else will do.

Our stated unemployment rate is below 5%, which was considered "full employment" when I studied economics.

IF we had illegals taking jobs from Americans who wanted those jobs, unemployment would be higher.

The same arguments were true in an era when, to get in at Ellis Island, one merely needed the name of a distant relative in a city somewhere. And the same argument was made against unlimited immigration then: the invasion must be stopped.

The KKK-driven immigration limits of the 1920's were wrong then and they are wrong now. People who want to see manufacturing thrive in the US again should be in favor of relaxed immigration standards.

Anonymous said...

Why do Hoosiers hate Mexicans so much???

Anonymous said...

Quote...What I try to get people to understand in this debate was our own government's complicity in allowing so many people to enter and work in the U.S. illegally in the first instance. There are many things our own government did to encourage illegal aliens to come to the U.S. I fully support enforcing the borders. I don't think someone should be able to simply walk across the border w/o inspection and integrate into the U.S. The fact is that we have 12 million here now, and it is simply not rational to think you can remove all of these people from the U.S. without creating major economic and civil unrest....End Quote

The actual numbers are 20 to 40 million Illegals but no one really knows for sure and yes they can be sent back.

Because the Feds were lax in their immigration & border enforcement does not stop the States and Cities from Immigration Enforcement.

Having an opinion for Legal Immigration and against Illegal Immigration does not make one a member of the KKK or any Hate Group.

Illegals can and must be sent back to their home country and the American Border secured.

The next thing that you know someone will suggest making it a Hate Crime for having a differing view. The Thought and Word Police are next.

Peter said...

3:50 says:
The actual numbers are 20 to 40 million Illegals but no one really knows for sure and yes they can be sent back.


I call BS. The best number we have is 12 million illegals. This number wasn't scrary enough for some anti-immigration zealots, so they started saying 12-20 million (with the 20 million number having no basis in reality). Now apparently the 20 million number isn't scary enough, so it's now 20-40 million - again, with no basis in facts.

Why not just say 100 billion illegals and be done with it.

ProCynic said...

Several points:

1. Whether our government was complicit in allowing illegal aliens to come here is irrelevant. That wa snot a choic emade by the American people through laws, but by an elitist government (of both parties) only interested in protecting its rich friends supply of cheap labor and undercutting wages for American workers. The American people did not choose to allow in 12 million illegal aliens.

(And, yes, I will use the term "illegal aliens," because that is the proper legal term.)

Furthermore, government inaction for a long time is not an excuse for stopping them when they finally try to do something. THere is no defense of laches in this matter.

2. No one is talking about deporting 12 million illegal aliens, because if we make it difficult for them to work and live illegally in the US (difficult to find jobs, no drivers' licenses, no government benefits), they will deport themselves. And are already doing so, as evidenced by the government of Sonora crying to Phoenix about how their own illegals are returning and they can't handle the influx.

3. Yes, it will be sad if families are broken up because one or both parents are illegal aliens, but that is not on our heads, but on the heads of the illegals, who came here knowing the risks. If you don't want your family broken up, don't come to the US illegally.

4. Illegal aliens doing the jobs American won't do? That canard is garbage. They're doing the jobs Americans won't do for such a low wage. You want Americans to do those jobs, raise the wages you are offering. The influx of illegals has warped the balance of supply and demand in favor of management. The US may be at full employment statistically, but the wages aren't there.

5. Finally, you completely ignore the assimilation issue. We aren't required to "press 1 for English" every time we do any business because of legal immigrants, but because of illegal aliens, who are only her to milk our economy and send the money back to Mexico. They have not made the commitment to the US, such as our system of government, our language or even the territorial integrity of the US. Last I checked, thos immigrants coming over Ellis Island did not claim that the US stole their land from Italy or Ireland, but many of the Mexicans do. Seen a La Raza or MeCha web site lately? Seen their maps?

You want to come to the US? Do so legally. Learn the language. EMbrace our country, and we will embrace you. Otherwise, get out.

Anonymous said...

Gary, a review of these posts sorta sums up the ignorance and nastiness that anyone must face, if they practice immigration law to any degree. My sympathies.

Here's a fact for some of the previous posters to ponder:

Not all of the "illegals" (no, it's NOT the proper legal term) are Hispanic. In my condo development, there are two Asian and multiple--more than 10--Eastern European immigrant families.

In the last year, their numbers have swelled. I know because I make regular rounds to ask if everyone's registered to vote.

You'd think I was from INS. I can tell by the fear in their eyes that many, if not all, of the persons residing in their homes are not properly documented. IN one 3 bedroom condo, there are nine adults. They all leave every morning and return late in the day--obviously, working or going to school or somehow occupying their time.

This problem has multiple tentacles that stretch into the fabric of our society at every turn.

Solving it will be difficult. It is not aided when so many folks have so much venom and so few facts. It's frightening.

Re-read the 14th Amendment, folks. Kids born here are citizens. If you really would separate families, you have no heart and no claim to the same country my forefathers and mothers staked out in the 1800s from Europe.

With absolutely zero import documents to their names.

ProCynic said...

7:07,

No one is claiming that ALL of the illegal immigrants are Mexicans, but you cannot dispute that the vast majority of them are. Last time I checked, we did not have to "press 1 for English" because of an influx of Latvians, with the Cyrillic alphabet appearing everywhere.

Second, governing from the heart is what has gotten us a trillion-dollar national debt. You can't base public policy on what feels good, but what is fair and reasonable as a national policy. Your policy on parents of illegals would enable them to essentially use their children as hostages to excuse their own lawbreaking. Take that to it's logical conclusion, and we end up paying single moms to have six kids.

It is the parents who chose to creat a family under these circumstanes, not us. There is no moral, ethical or legal reason why we should bear the cost of it instead of them. None whatsoever.

Wilson46201 said...

Latvian (Lettish) uses a Latinate alphabet. No need to get all worked up about Cyrillic letters on your cellphone!

Anonymous said...

Procynic, you're absolutely wrong. Where children are involved, there is a moral imperative. Check whatever holy book you read--it's there, in triplicate. Granted, there is a cost, but it is imperical---children's futures cannot be compromised. Nor should they be used as pawns by parents who shouldn't be here. Therein lies the rub.

And your knowledge of national debt is rewriting history. "Govenring from the heart" did not get us into the mess we're currently in. For your recollection, our national debt is what it is, largely because:

Our president and a wobbly Congress cut taxes at the same time they quintupled military spending, half of it on duplicitous programs. And there's that war thing. Try to keep up, cynic...you can have our own opinions, but not your own facts.

I will give you this: I don't relish the thought of immigrants using their children as a shield against deportation.

I wish there were another answer, and if you can muster one, please offer it up.

Praise be...our president, George W. Bush, put forth a proposed policy that actually made some sense.

So see, even a blind squirrel can find an acorn once in a while. (With apologies to Rex Early)

American said...

Anti-Immigrant Groups Borrow From Playbook Of Hate Groups To Demonize Hispanics

Describing immigrants as "third world invaders," who come to America to destroy our heritage, "colonize" the country and attack our "way of life." This charge is used against Hispanics, Asians and other people of color.

Using terminology that describes immigrants as part of "hordes" that "swarm" over the border. This dehumanizing language has become common.

Portraying immigrants as carriers of diseases like leprosy, tuberculosis, Chagas disease (a potentially fatal parasitic disease), dengue fever, polio, malaria.

Depicting immigrants as criminals, murderers, rapists, terrorists, and a danger to children and families.

Propagating conspiracy theories about an alleged secret "reconquista" plot by Mexican immigrants to create a "greater Mexico" by seizing seven states in the American Southwest that once belonged to Mexico.

Source: The Anti-Defamation League

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/CvlRt_32/5154_32.htm

First They Came said...

First they came...

They came first for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communists.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Anonymous said...

Hey Gary. I thought you banned Wilson???????? The air got hot and smelly again.

SOS said...

I have no sympathy for people who marry illegal aliens. They are free to join their spouse in thier native countries.

We can't continue to accept anyone who decides to violate their visa or just enters the country without one.

If we don't do the things necessary to be a nation, we will no longer be one.

All one has to do as look around the world or at our past history to see what the results are from unrestrained immigration, particularly illegal immigration. Two dominant cultures will eventually clash. Wars are just a grown-up version of gang warfare and protecting one's turf.

There is this myth going around that democratic governments unite people together, however, what holds a nation together are common values and a common culture. Countries without common values and culture are held together by dicatators. Remove the dictator and chaos reigns.

ProCynic said...

9:24,

Ah, yes. It's all FOR THE CHILDREN!!! Any outrage is OK as long as it's FOR THE CHILDREN!!!

You display a fundamental misunderstanding of both government and the Bible. The Bible (or a verion of it, since it has multiple versions) says a lot of things, some of which have been used against people like the proprietor of this site. Should we make those precepts the basis for public policy, too? Eric Miller would have us do so.

You cannot use the Bible as justification for public policy. Government is not responsible for childen. Parents are.

Government's interests and God's interests are not the same thing. Remember that whole "render unto Caesar" deal? Government must do things that individuals cannot do (like, you know, defend the country -- the primary raison d'etre for government under the social contract -- instead of giving money to poor children) because it has an obligation that individuals do not have -- to defend its population against predators, both foreign and domestic. This is why it is not OK for individuals to kill, but for governments to do so to protect their charges.

It is the job of parents to look out for their children. Children pay for the mistakes of their parents all the time. This is no different.

Anonymous said...

A history lesson:

At the beginning of this country, and for almost a century and a half, there was an undercurrent about German-speaking Americans. There were so many at the time of Independence that the Continental Congress was said to have debated seriously whether to establish either English or German as the "legal" language of the US. Ultimately neither was.

I am of the opinion that my German forebears got off the hook for many years because most of the German-American immigrants were white Protestants whose families provided early leaders, especially in Pennsylvania.

Then the nativist hate machine spun up during WWI, the Klan era. My grandmother, a bilingual German-American, said that almost overnight people stopped speaking German in public or in private lest they be accused of sympathizing with the enemy. She grew up in the German Village section of Columbus, Ohio, when it really was a German-American village.

Later that same hate machine was spun up against the Japanese-Americans in the West, leading to one of the most shameful chapters on US history.

History repeats. Even when it's cultural holocaust. Enough is enough.

Give 'em documents and make 'em legal, I keep saying.

ProCynic said...

9:44,

Last time I checked, the historical record never indicated that the German-Americans and Japanese-Americans ever demanded we speak their language, or provide them with special rights, or that the southwestern US really belonged to them.

A better historical parallel might be Kosovo. Albanian Muslims settle in a land that had been Serbian, and now they want it to be part of neighboring Albania. It ended up in war. That is what we face if we don't get this under control.

Wilson46201 said...

In 1851 Hoosiers rewrote our State Constitution - 50,000 copies of this new document were published and disseminated across the state to inform the citizens.

HOWEVER: there were a number of thick-headed and stubborn German voters who just wouldn't learn English like good Americans. Kowtowing to the strident minority demands of those aliens, the State knuckled under to the lily-livered, panty-waisted liberals and published 5000 copies of the Constitution auf Deutsch!!!

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Anonymous said...

LMAO. Thanks Wilson, for proving my point.

Or maybe it was my grandmother's point. I'd thank you in German, but it wasn't taught in schools in my era. Only French, Latin, and oh yeah, Spanish.

ProCynic said...

5:06, try dankeschoen. Blogger can't handle the umlaut thing.

And I don't think I need to point out to anyone here that the 1851 constitution sucks.

Nothing wrong with being panty-waisted. Don't start sounding like Eric Miller.