Thursday, March 13, 2008

Property Tax Deal Close?

I like what I'm hearing as far as lawmakers reaching an agreement on permanent property tax relief and reform. Gov. Mitch Daniels badly needs something real he can take to voters this fall in his re-election campaign. The ability of our new mayor Greg Ballard to financially govern the City of Indianapolis also has a lot riding on this agreement. And a few lawmakers facing a tough re-election campaign could be aided by property tax relief legislation. It will certainly leave a lot of important issues on the table to be dealt with in future legislative sessions, but at least it appears it will be something more than the band-aid approach taken in past sessions. There's only another day left. Let's hope lawmakers get it done and get it done right.

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

We've got to quit governing like this!

Property Tax Reform is not complete without local government consolidation and government spending cuts!

CALL YOUR LEGISLATOR TODAY
DEMAND SHEPARD KERNAN REFORM IMMEDIATELY!
http://www.in.gov/apps/sos/legislator/search/

The bipartisan government-reform panel led by Indiana Supreme Court Chief Justice Randall Shepard and former Gov. Joe Kernan recommend the elimination of 1,155 units of government and 5,833 fewer elected officials statewide saving $400 million each year.

Message from former Governor Joe Kernan:
http://www.indianachamber.com/

BSU Study: Kernan-Shepard Recommendations Give Big Savings EACH Year
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=27617

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, but Ballard claimed loud and wide that there was $70 million in fat in the City budget that could be cut. He doesn't now get annointed as having a budget that is too tight. No free passes to this guy.

Advance Indiana said...

As long as the City of Indianapolis gets this monkey off its back called pension liability so we don't have to borrow on a credit card for the next 40 years to pay for it, I don't care who gets credit for it. I'm just happy the problem goes away so the City can focus on its core services and limiting the taxation of its citizens.

Anonymous said...

The Shepard-Kernan Report will get full treatment, I'm told: in the next session.

The short 30-day session was just too tangled up, to allow legislators to tackle that report along with this property tax issue.

I know, they should've been able to multi-task, but have you wandered over to the General Assembly lately, taken a look at all the polyester waddling to the microphones, and listened to them? It's frightening. Honestly, out of 150, there may be, maybe, 35-40 good ones.

That thump you heard in the night, was the tax icnrease bus backing up over you, running over you, and then backing up and doing it again. Drip, drip, drip...one penny more per dollar, a slow, largely-unnoticed drain on your budget.

So, after they finally determined that property tax reform (not marriage) was going to dominate their agenda, what to they belch forth?

This nonsense.

Any proposal that raises sales tax is ridiculous. History has proven, that every time we do it, government only expands exponentionally. And that's never good.

If you want to see substantive government reform in the next session, throw out some of the goofs who gave us this "compromise property tax relief": as in, Sens. Miller, Drozda, et al, and Reps. Cochran, Espich, Bosma, et al...it's a bipartisan group of goofs.

When are they going to learn? The public is yearning for smaller government, or at least a cut in the growth of government. Government is expensive, and rarely helps us. It is required, of course, for schools, roads, police and fire, taking care of the indigent. We need to get back to basic needs.

I would've thought that the legislature "got" it. Evidently not.

(Sigh)

Anonymous said...

Putting off Shepard Kernan reform until at least next session is a delaying tactic used to kill real reform.

Mitch Daniels and Joe Kernan promised the elimination of all township assessors four years ago during there campaign for Governor.

The time is Now!

Anonymous said...

There are at least 2 separate liabilities. One is for those who
cashed out and converted to the
1978/1979 system. There was something like $15,000 buyout way back then to induce a switch to the new system. That buy-out was a lot of money in 1979 dollars (for example, Judges' salaries then were roughly $24,000 to $30,000a year). Another is for those public safety who did not cash out but kept the pre-1978/1979 system. I think Ballard was referring to the second group.

Anonymous said...

i just called pat bauer's office. although i was insulted by his assistant for suggesting that bauer was the hold up and told that i didn't understand what was going on, she did note that a deal was expected to be announced today.

i have on good authority (someone on the ground at the statehouse) that the problem is, in fact, bauer (shocker, i know). he is confused and getting cold feet.

the direct line to bauer's office is 232.9628 and i would encourage anyone who wants this completed this week to call his office.

i was honestly astonished and offended by the comments of his assistant. usually staff at any level are incredibly gracious to voters under all circumstances. i was not rude or demanding but did clearly state i expected action. i was told that i was "not nice" and basically called ignorant.

while i cannot vote for or against bauer, i do live in a district that is currently occupied by a dem but will be hotly contested come november. one woud think bauer and his staff would understand that all voters matter if they want to keep control of the house and if he wants to be the speaker. then again, maybe that's yet another thing that he doesn't understand.

Anonymous said...

So the rich folks with costly homes will get a huge tax break. On the flip side, folks like me will see a pittance of a break. In fact, if this 1% cap passes, my property taxes could go right back up, eating away any savings I might see over the next couple of years.

They should have just pulled the plug on the entire system. Use a state income tax to fund things the state wants to take over and force local communities to hike the income tax on their people to pay for $10,000,000 school swimming pools, police/fire departments with administrator ratios of 1:3, etc. etc.

Property tax relief is nothing more than a tax hike on people who live in counties where spending was kept in check.

Oh well, I guess I will just have to buy more things on-line and reduce giving to charity to match the tax break that people in Meridian-Kessler are going to get.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:44
You already get a huge tax break. If you house is worth $50,000 and the homestead deduction is $45,000 you are only paying taxes on $5,000. If someone's home is worth $500,000 they are paying taxes on $450,000. How can you whine about that?

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:44

I am one of the "rich folks" living in MK... next door to Mr Irsey and Bill Gates. Over the past 4 years, my prop taxes increased by over 500% to 25 THOUSAND per year. I would pay LESS taxes on a $2M condo in Paris (thats France, not Illinois) than I do in Indpls, on a 625K house. Do you really think that I am going to stick around to be bled dry?

By the way, I worked my butt off to get where I'm at, and I employ 5 people.

If your class warfare chases me and the other middle class so-called "Rich Folk" out of Indpls, your job... will go with me.

But then maybe Mr Irsay or Mr Gates will hire you... but wait they DON'T LIVE in Indianapolis, do they?
___________________________

You, my friend will be the ultimate victim of your misguided class warfare.

Taxpayer-46205

Sine Die said...

So, Anon 9:40, you called a legislator, told his assistant you thought he was a moron, and you're offended that she suggested you were not nice?

a.) calling with constructive input or suggestions will get you further than slinging negative accusations, and

b.) understand that the staff over there works even longer hours in the end of the session than some legislators, so if they were curt when you started ranting, I could probably understand that.

Anonymous said...

taxpayer 46205, the good news is that despite the whining by those that don't understand, our taxes will be capped at 1%. yay.

fortunately enough in the legislature know that even though the property tax fiasco was somewhat contained to 3 areas and about 30% of the population, it would have been ruinous to the larger, older cities to hasten suburban migration. some of the law makers publicly screaming the most (thing crawford) even knew that something had to be fixed.

ok, now someone explain to me what or how lake and st. jo counties can be and will be treated differently? what happened to fair and equitable per the constitution?

Anonymous said...

PROPERTY TAXES CAPPED? Only if it's in the Constitution.

Anonymous said...

I am one of the "rich folks" living in MK... next door to Mr Irsey and Bill Gates. Over the past 4 years, my prop taxes increased by over 500% to 25 THOUSAND per year. I would pay LESS taxes on a $2M condo in Paris (thats France, not Illinois) than I do in Indpls, on a 625K house. Do you really think that I am going to stick around to be bled dry?

By the way, I worked my butt off to get where I'm at, and I employ 5 people.

If your class warfare chases me and the other middle class so-called "Rich Folk" out of Indpls, your job... will go with me.

But then maybe Mr Irsay or Mr Gates will hire you... but wait they DON'T LIVE in Indianapolis, do they?


It is a free country, leave if you must. Stop demanding more of my money and my neighbors money to keep Meridian-Kessler, Lockerbie, Butler-Tarkington, etc. like they are. For starters, why have you and your neighbors not complained about how YOUR city/county government continues to use the 1% food and beverage taxes for sports entertainment? Oh wait, thats right, that benefits YOU, so you won't complain about that. It is only until all the chickens (ie: Out-of-control spending by various government units in Indy) come home to roost do you demand others be forced to bailout you and your neighbors just so you folks can keep living urban in a trendy neighborhood. Sorry, but while you may have tried to prevent this from happening, it is obviously your neighbors did not. If they did, then it is also obvious that your are totally out-numbered in the city (ie: big spenders/me, me, me types vs. smaller government types). So yes, please move to an area of the city where your tax burden is not that high. If this means Indy becomes New Detroit, so be it. It is not my fault that your library board totally screwed up their massive construction project, that your local government raised taxes for "FUTBAW!" instead of other things, and that your live in a school district that has a massive administration.
Property taxes are a local problem. As such, the solutions should remain on the local level. So yes, do move if you must. I can't blame you for wanting to move. If you feel that it is Meridian-Kessler or another state, well, you have to do what you have to do.

taxpayer 46205, the good news is that despite the whining by those that don't understand, our taxes will be capped at 1%. yay.

fortunately enough in the legislature know that even though the property tax fiasco was somewhat contained to 3 areas and about 30% of the population, it would have been ruinous to the larger, older cities to hasten suburban migration. some of the law makers publicly screaming the most (thing crawford) even knew that something had to be fixed.


I knew this was about taxing the many to benefit the few. The few here are people who wanted to live in yuppie urban areas, but didn't want to pay for the welfare bailouts and all their bloated branches of local government.

Don't worry, this tax hike (to me) only means that I can no longer shop at local merchants due to the higher sales tax. It also means no more donating to charity if my taxes go up too high. Hate to burst your bubble, but this is also just a band-aid solution. As the ghetto and governments grow, so will the need for money. So while your going to save on your property taxes, your gonna end up getting nailed on the income side in the future.

Anonymous said...

I would pay LESS taxes on a $2M condo in Paris (thats France, not Illinois) than I do in Indpls, on a 625K house.

What an absolutely retarded comparison. What would your income tax be there? How much VAT and GST would you pay each month on your consumables?

Anonymous said...

AI, Can you explain why Bauer insisted that Lake and St.Joseph Counties should be excluded from the constitutional caps the governor wanted statewide? Lake county has some of the worst-case scenarios when it comes to skyrocketing property taxes.

Advance Indiana said...

The answer is, anon 3:53:

a) He is committing policical suicide; or

b) He is so confident he can never be voted out of office and he's just trying to provide a reason for the federal courts to strike down the entire provision as unconstitutional on equal protection grounds.

Anonymous said...

I'm going with B

Anonymous said...

Or, C) He will blame it on the governor because Lake county gets all their news from Chicago and he knows the local rags up there will only give the story two paragraphs.

Anonymous said...

anonymous 2:57, your rant is ridiculous. meridian kessler and butler tarkington "trendy"? how do you call old established neighborhoods like that trendy? people in the city who are actually paying property taxes -- and tons don't because their homesteads are below the exemption -- are working hard to keep urban blight from consuming yet more or marion county. they shouldn't be further penalized for it.

irrespective of where you live, in the end everyone benefits from a cap on their property tax.

Anonymous said...

Details about the property tax bill per Abdul's blog.

"There are a few more details this afternoon such as counties with more than 20 percent of their budget going to debt service are free from the tax caps (Lake and St. Joseph) are the only two impacted, but once the debt goes below 20 percent the caps kick in. In addition, the referendum dollar amount on schools is $20 million for high schools and $10 million for elementary."

http://www.indianabarrister.com/

Anonymous said...

Taxpayer 46205, Anon 12:02: I am quite familiar with the neighborhood in which Mr. "Irsey" (sic) lives. There's nothing in the $645K range anywhere near. And Bill Gates lives in another state. I know it's intended to be sarcasm, but it comes off flat. Did you start drinking early today?

And would you really move 5 jobs out of the county if you moved, too? That's kinda spiteful.

Still, it looks like your prop. tax bill will go way down under this new system. Subsidized by the 1 cent inreased sales tax we all pay. So as far as class warfare goes, pal, try this from Econ 101:

Poor folks, rich folks, and everyone in between, is now subsidizing your property taxes. Because the gutless legislature couldn't figure out a better way to pay for things.

Poof, they're gone. Sine die.

Thank God. It could've been much worse.