Monday, November 24, 2008

Kenyan Ambassador Admits Obama's Birth In Kenya?

Detroit radio talk show host Mark Fellhauer and his colleagues on WFIR's "Mike In The Morning" believe they got Kenyan Ambassador to the U.S. Peter Ogego to matter-of-factly admit to Barack Obama's birth in Kenya as his paternal step-grandmother Sarah Obama has claimed. Ogego tells them that plans are underway to mark Obama's birthplace in Kenya. You can listen to their light-hearted interview with the Ambassador by clicking here. After listening to the complete interview, I'm not thoroughly convinced that Ogego fully understood the drift of the suggestive question by Fellhauer, but Fellhauer sees it differently.

Hat tip to Debbie Schlussel.

UPDATE: A Bush White House press spokesperson, Tony Fratto, declined to answer questions about Obama's birth certificate and ended the press briefing after the question was posed. Here's the exchange:

Q Thank you, Tony. Two questions. There's been extensive media coverage of where the two Obama daughters will attend school. And my question: The White House believes that they should be able to attend the school their parents select without criticism because it's private rather than public, don't you?

MR. FRATTO: I think we support all parents making that decision.

Q Good. The CEO of WorldNetDaily has called on the President-elect to release a birth certificate listing the hospital and names of parents. The White House believes that this would fully satisfy the constitutional requirement, don't you?

MR. FRATTO: I don't think I have anything to say on that, Lester, and I think we're going to end it right there.
Thank you.


IndyPaul said...

Certainly the Ambassador was speaking of the town that Obama’s family is from. The broadcaster made a leading statement, and the Ambassador went on to talk about Barack Obama, Sr., the president elects father. This is obviously not a serious inquiry, with light talk of Kenya as the 51st state, and the ambassador and his staff playing along. Just as anyone with any intelligence knows that Kenya is not, in fact the 51st state, anyone with any intelligence also knows that president elect Obama was born in Hawaii.

Obama publicly released his Certificate of live birth. It has been certified by the state of Hawaii as authentic, and containing the same information as that in Obama’s birth certificate. Each claim made regarding its falsity has been refuted. (see more recent factcheck article, with three dimensional photos of the document) The COLB is, by law, conclusive as a birth record in any legal proceeding. As a government record, it is self-authenticating, subject to judicial notice, and admissible. Moreover, Obama produced his birth certificate as a Senator for security clearance as a member of the foreign relations committee. Additionally, the Honolulu newspaper carried an announcement of his birth. Obama was born in Hawaii, and is a natural born citizen.

Now, to induge your persistent conspiracy theories, EVEN IF Obama were born in Kenya, he was nonetheless born to a US citizen who had resided in the US for at least five years, two of which were after the age of 14. Therefore, under US law, he was born a US citizen. An application to attend grade school in a foreign country filled out by a minor’s step-father CANNOT serve as a knowing renunciation of citizenship by that minor, which is what is required for one to loose his citizenship.

As for the sudden embrace of the Constitution for supporters and former supporters of President George W. Bush, it is laughable. The Supreme Court did assert the Constitution in sriking down his unconstitutional sceme to deprive Guantanamo detainees of basic constitutional rights. W. tried harder and devised a new scheme, and the Court again, stuck that down. His administration’s officials have evaded Congressional subpoenas, manipulated national intelligence to take the country into war on false pretenses, broke the confidential identity of a CIA official who spoke out against that manipulation in retaliation, and abused the office, falsely claiming superiority to the other brances, Cheny going so far as to seriously claim he is part of neither the executive or legislative branches - a free agent, free from conststitutional restriction, which explains his behavior over the past 8 years. We will soon have a constitutional scholar as president who will have the ability to restore the office of the president to legitimacy and honor. The fact that wingnuts such as many commenting here would twist every truth to claim that the constitution forbids his very election is sickening.

Gary R. Welsh said...

Sorry to disappoint you Paul, but the only thing the State of Hawaii confirmed was that the state had a birth record on file for Obama. As I've pointed out before, Hawaiian law at the time permitted a parent who claimed to have resided in Hawaii for at least one year prior to a child's birth to record that child's birth in the State of Hawaii regardless of where the child had been born. Also, the law you cite on the residency requirement for Obama's mother was different than the current law. She did not meet the residency requirement in effect at that time under federal law. When she and Barry immigrated to Indonesia and became Indonesian citizens, it would have changed everything. The issue was further made murky when the University of Washington records revealed that Barry's mother attended school there and not the University of Hawaii where Barry's father was attending school in the fall semester following his birth. So his mother gets pregnant to a Kenyan national, marries him, has the baby a few months later and then immediately moves out of state with the baby while the father is still in Hawaii attending school there. The father is said to have abandoned mother and child when child is two to attend Harvard. It just doesn't add up. Again, as has been said about his autobiography, Dreams From My Father, you can't tell where the fiction ends and the truth begins.

Jason said...

Gitmo detainees don't have constitutional rights because they aren't US Citizens. They can't be tried in US Criminal Justice courts because the soldiers who evidently 'arrested' them had no authority or jurisdiction under our criminal justice system to make said arrests.

If they were every single case would be thrown out, due to challenges in regard to chain of custody, evidence issues ("where are the shell casings from the rifle my client used to shoot at you?"), and a host of other problems that they would never be able to address on a battlefield. The only thing Bush is guilty of is trying to give the appearance that he was going above and beyond the call of duty by giving these murderers a trial. THAT was the historical precedent.

One judge already ordered the release of 18 Chinese terrorists who had trained at a camp in the DC Chinese community! Fortunately someone with some common sense saw this and prevented it from ever happening.

Bush has never (publicly, for the conspiracy theorists) suspended habeas corpus for US Citizens. Roosevelt suspended it for each and every US Citizen he saw fit during WW2 (that was the legal precedent.) If Bush trampled on the constitution, then his predecessors evidently set it on fire...

Gary R. Welsh said...

I have to laugh, Paul, at the idea that Obama is a constitutional scholar. Can you produce anything scholarly he has ever written besides the anonymous pro abortion piece he still hasn't acknowledged writing back from his days in Harvard, even though he was supposedly the president of the Harvard Law Review?

It's a waste of time to argue those points with the liberals, Jason. They won't be happy until we are totally stripped of any ability to protect ourselves from foreign enemies.

IndyPaul said...

State of Hawaii health director Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures." The COLB is an abstract of this state information which is, again, conclusive as a birth record in any legal proceeding. I really have never understood the theory - Dunham, in late pregnancy, and Obama, Sr. leave school to go to Kenya, where she gives birth, only to return thereafter?? I don't think she goes for superior medical facilities. Then they immediately submit the birth to the HI paper upon their return? Pretty fantastic theory.

On to theory 536: Now you assume from Barack's 6th grade registration that he had beed adopted? That's quite a leap. Even if true, it would not have extinguished Barack's US citizenship. The fiction begins upon entering this website.

Its well known that Obama was constitutional law professor at Univ. of Chicago for 12 years.

Jason, the U.S. Supreme Court, the majority of whom were appointed by republican presidents, disagrees with you regarding Gitmo.

Unknown said...

Are you implying that Obama is a "foreign enemy"?


He's the son of an American citizen, born in Hawaii (which, last time I checked, was part of the US).

Give it up. Your guy lost the election. Let's move on!

Gary R. Welsh said...

Again, IndyPaul, you miss my point about the problem with Hawaii's law at the time it became a new state. Other states required an attending physician, midwife, etc. who personally witnessed or administered the birth to complete an original birth certificate document. Hawaiian law allowed a parent to file an affidavit of birth up to a year after the birth, even if the child was born outside Hawaii. Because Obama won't release this original document which was filed with the state, we cannot ascertain the circumstances of his original birth; only that the state confirms something was filed with the state in accordance with the state law. The problem is that the state's law at that time did not necessarily comport to the natural born requirement. Further, the natural born requirement in the U.S. Constitution was based on a father's, not a mother's citizenship. Remember, women didn't have the right to vote or full citizenship rights when our Constitution was adopted. The natural born requirement was based on the child's father's status and not the mother's status; the mother was still deemed the property of her husband at the time of its adoption. Note that the original use of "natural born" in statutory law was removed because Congress decided that term should be based on constitutional and not statutory interpretation. Statutory law probably makes Obama a citizen, but the constitution requires something more. Obama knows this. He has deliberately withheld the information which would put this issue to rest. Why?

The "foreign enemy", Nobody, does not reference Obama and you know that. Typical response from someone trying to deflect from the real issue.

Gary R. Welsh said...

"Its well known that Obama was constitutional law professor at Univ. of Chicago for 12 years," IndyPaul wrote.

No, he wasn't a professor. He was a senior lecturer. How many people do you know who could a) join the faculty of any prominent law school; b) not have a single legal scholarship piece written prior to being hired and c) continue on for 12 years in that status with the university without publishing a single legal article? When you find someone else, IndyPaul, please shout out their name to us.

Unknown said...

What if Barack Obama's birth certificate list his race as white? Maybe that's why he won't release it (because it would mean he isn't the first black president) I found this interesting post:

IndyPaul said...

Your point, Gary, is a non-sequitur. The State of Hawaii has confirmed it has Obama's original birth certificate. Even if, as you suggest, Hawaii allowed anyone to obtain a COLB (I have never seen the statute referred to, and it makes little sense, when a COLB is an abstract, or a 'short form' of the actual birth certificate), it already had the orignal birth certificate. Even supposing that the documents contained differing information, which again, makes no sense - the COLB is a state certification of the facts as stated in a birth certificate - the COLB, under Hawaii law, is determinative. That law is, as you know, entitled to full faith and credit in every other state. O)bama put this matter to rest by releasing the COLB. The farce is over.

From the University of Chicago:

'The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."

From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.'

Note that Senior Lecturers are regarded as professors. The six other Senior Lectuers include the law school's associate dean and Judge Richard Posner, one of the nation's top legal theorists.

smrstrauss said...

Here’s what it would take for Obama to have been born in Kenya.

(1) It would have taken a lifetime of covering up by his mother before and after the birth of Obama in Kenya (IF he were born in Kenya of course).

She could not have told a friend at college that she was excited that she soon would be travelling to Kenya to see her in-laws because, of course, a friend could have remembered it all the way to 2008. Or the friend could have told another friend. So, she could never have told anyone.

And, she could not have told a friend after the birth in Kenya “Say, let me tell you, it’s really an experience giving birth in Africa” because a friend could have remembered it even to 2008, or the friend could have told another friend, who would have remembered. So, she could never have told anyone.

And, she could not have told even her son when he was a kid or a teenager because kids and teenagers tend to talk, and the friends that they have told could have remembered it even to 2008. So, she could never have told even Obama.

Even though she went to Kenya to see her in-laws and was presumably proud that she was doing that, she did not have any pictures taken with them or leave any pictures of her with them. Or, she or Obama himself arranged for all the photos to be burned in the years following that trip. Why no photos? Was she covering up even then?

Thus in order to believe that Obama was born in Kenya, a lot of what is normal about taking trips and talking frankly about your life has to be eliminated. It is normal to take photos, but there are no photos. It is normal to tell people about trips, but no one was told (or they are all dead or sworn to secrecy, which is hard to believe in itself).

(2) Obama’s mother, Ann, would have had to travel to Kenya in the ninth month of pregnancy.

This is intrinsic to the born-in-Kenya theory.

But let’s examine it. For most pregnant women, even today, if they had a chance to travel before the ninth month of pregnancy, or after it, they would. Why? Because it is easier to get around and see things when you are not carrying all that weight, and because there is always a chance of sickness. This was even more the case in 1961, when the statistics of stillbirth were higher than now.

So, if they went to Kenya at all (which is unlikely because of item 1 above), it is more likely that they traveled before the ninth month, such as during the Christmas break from college, or Spring break, or right away in June when the college ended courses for the summer. Or, they planned to travel after the birth, taking Obama with them, but never made the trip because a year later the couple was breaking up. It is highly unlikely that they took the trip in the ninth month of pregnancy, and even more unlikely LATE in the ninth month, when the birth might occur on a plane or in a car in Kenya.

Also, since it is a long trip, and they did not have direct flights Hawaii-Africa at the time, it would be more likely that they would want to see some of the sights along the way. Doing that makes a long and expensive trip seem more worthwhile, since in the process of going to Kenya you also get to see New York and London and maybe Rome or Cairo on the way to Kenya, or the other way via Tokyo. But to do this would mean that you planned the trip to take it when when walking around and seeing the sights is not so difficult for a pregnant woman, such as as many months as possible before the birth, or after the birth.

(3) Obama’s mother would not have wanted to travel to Kenya when she was pregnant because to travel to Africa in those days required a Yellow Fever shot, which is not good during pregnancy.

(4) IF Obama’s mother had traveled to Kenya in 1961, there would be official records of that trip available in Kenya.

According to the theorists of Obama’s birth in Kenya, this is explained by the Kenyan government having sealed Obama’s files, which otherwise would have shown his Kenyan birth documents, his mother’s arrival in Kenya, and his own travel documents (or his being entered on his father or mother’s passport) after his birth in Kenya.

But to say explain the absence of such official documents to the Kenyan government requires it to be part of the conspiracy, and it has to be a universally successful conspiracy in Kenya. By that I mean that not only is the Kenyan government covering up, but all members of the government or hospitals who may have had a chance to look into either the immigration or birth records must be keeping the secret. That means that many people who knew about Obama’s mother being in Kenya or about the birth in Kenya must be keeping the secret. But why should they? They might mention the fact that they saw the files at a bar for a free drink. Or they might bring the story to a newspaper, or a wire service.

(5) Not merely the Kenyan government has to be party to the conspiracy.

The officials in the state of Hawaii have to be conspiring as well. You will recall that in early November they issued a press release and subsequently were interviewed by the Honolulu Advertiser, saying that they had looked into Obamas’ files and from the contents of those files could confirm the accuracy of the Certification of Live Birth that Obama has posted on and shown to and

There are some conspiracy theorists who assert that what the officials in Hawaii did not say was that they had looked into the files and found a KENYAN birth certificate in the files. If so, they were intentionally misleading and were part of the conspiracy. To say that the certificate of live birth, which says on it that Obama was born in Honolulu, on the Island of Oahau, and in the County of Honolulu, is accurate after seeing a document from Kenya is a lie, and if it were shown that Obama really had been born in Kenya after giving the impression that he was born in Hawaii, the officials would be subject to prosecution for fraud. They would be very very unlikely to do that. Why should they?

So, the officials in Hawaii and FactCheck and Polifact would have to be part of the conspiracy.

(6) On the other side of the story, the only “facts” that seem to weigh against the officials from Hawaii’s evidence that Obama was born in Kenya and the vast improbability of his mother traveling in the ninth month of pregnancy, is the tape recording of Obama’s Kenyan grandmother, who apparently said that she was present at his birth in Kenya.

There are a number of explanations for this: the most obvious being that she did not understand the question, the one that is not so very nice is that she is an old lady. The point to remember about this interview (and I urge you to listen to it again) is that it was not conducted in order to obtain useful evidence that Obama was either born or not born in Kenya. It was designed to get a “yes” to the question whether she had been present when he was born.

If the interview had been a fair investigation of whether Obama had been born in Kenya, it would have asked questions to demonstrate that Obamas’ grandmother understood the question or that she was not confused about being “present.”

In such cases, it is normal to ask verifying questions along the following lines: “How long were Obama’s parents in Kenya before the birth?” “Did they travel to your village first, or go to the hospital and deliver the child first?” “How many days did Obams’s mother spend in hospital after delivering the child?” “In what month was the birth?” “What hospital?” And then there are questions along these lines: “If he was born in Kenya, why aren’t there any photos of him with his grandparents in Kenya?”

(7) Other than the grandmother, who is on tape, there are also claims that other Obama relatives in Kenya said the same thing, that he was born in Kenya. However, these reports all stem from the same sources, Corsi and WND, and have not been verified by anyone else. And, they also have not been asked such questions as how long Obama’s parents were in Kenya before the birth and why there are no photos.

Re: the simple question: “Mr. Obama, where is your birth certificate?”

The first answer to this is that a certification of live birth is a birth certificate, but not in the sense of being the original document issued either by the hospital or by the state at the time of birth. But it is a birth certificate in the sense of being a document issued by the state relevant to the birth and declaring that the person was born at that time and in that place.

But you may say, “why hasn’t he released his original birth certificate?” The first answer is that it is unnecessary. The officials in Hawaii have confirmed that there is a document in the files showing that he was born in Hawaii. The certification of live birth, with the location of birth being in the USA, is enough for the US state department to issue passports, and in this case it has.

A longer answer would be along the following lines: Has anyone prior to this election asked to see the birth certificate of any president or presidential candidate before? I mean, did we ask to see Tom Jefferson’ s birth certificate, Tyler’s, Polk’s, Lincoln’s, Wilson’s, Hoover’s, FDR’s, JFK’s or either of the two Bushes’?

But in this case, the person has already shown his certification of live birth. Despite that a few people are asking that he show even more than that.

Why, since the certification of live birth proves his birth in the USA, since it is incredible to think that his mother traveled to Kenya in the ninth month of pregnancy and kept the secret all her life, and since the only ones who are asking for him to POST his original birth certificate are right-wing bloggers, should he do it?

To be sure, there are still some law cases pending, which might have the effect of requiring Obama to show his hospital birth certificate. IF so, there is an original birth certificate, in the files, (we know because the officials in Hawaii said so) and Obama can arrange to have it shown to the court. A court would be the right place to show it, not on-line, and a court would have the facilities to authenticate such a document. But unless a court asks to see it, why should he post it?

IF a court doesn’t ask to see it, then what? Well, you can keep on thinking that he was born in Kenya, although there is no evidence and it is most unlikely, or you can get on with your life. Did you know that there are still some people who believe that the US government continues to hide the bodies of aliens in Rosewell, NM?

IndyPaul said...

And there the story ends. (at least on this thread). Nice post, smr.