More than 500 Indianapolis residents gathered this morning for a quickly-organized demonstration on Meridian Street in front of the Governor's residence to protest Indiana's unfair property tax. "A tax which our politicians use to reward their friends and punish their enemies", a line used by today's event organizer Andrew Horning, struck a responsive chord with those gathered. Horning used the opportunity to promote his Fair Tax idea of replacing both property and income taxes with a sales tax. Horning told the crowd Gov. Daniels had told him this past weekend he was studying the Fair Tax concept. Noticeably absent from today's demonstration were any elected officials. Not a single, elected official could be seen anyhere near the demonstration. Disappointing to many in the crowd was the absence of GOP mayoral candidate Greg Ballard at today's rally--a missed opportunity for his uphill campaign. Hats off to Horning and the others who organized today's demonstration. The crowd was met enthusiastically by passing motorists, who honked their horns in a show of solidarity. Even one IMPD police cruiser honked in support.
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ReplyDeleteAndrew Horning quietly sold his Broad Ripple house and moved out of Indianapolis in 2004 during his Congressional race - he now lives down in Owen County.
ReplyDeleteAnd why is it relevant whether he lives in Marion or Owen County?
ReplyDeleteAbout as relevant whether Marion County GOP politicians should be campaigning at the event, I suppose...
ReplyDeleteWilson should get his own blog. His comments were to be expected since he justifies the higher taxes and supports the wasteful spending by the corrupt democrap administration.
ReplyDeleteAndy Horning remains an Indiana taypayer. Reason why he selected the governor's mansion for the demonstration, you idiot
I was there and it was a good crowd. The police were nice to block off the street to avoid any traffic problems. It was good to hear that others were having large increases and they were not happy with it. Like Andy said - we voted the people in who set the polices - Democrat and Republican - and it is time for the voters to make a change.
ReplyDeletePike Voter
"Max" : It really makes for a much more civilized and illuminating discussion if name-calling and insults to other commenters are avoided. Can't you make your political point without crude personal slams? Please!
ReplyDeleteI think it is interesting that your crowd was middle-to-upper class Caucasions. Are they too good for a second job? If you want to stay in an area than you need to learn how to bring home the bacon.
ReplyDeleteWow that's great to see! I wish there was something going on this weekend because I will be in Indy on Saturday.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the website for this Fair Tax Indiana movement? Is it just the national Indiana Fair Tax website or is their a specific one for Indiana only?
Thanks.
Mrs. IndyErnie and myself went to the rally at the Gov’s residence this morning. A large crowd was gathered expressing concerns over taxation.
ReplyDeleteThe local media is reporting three hundred, my calculation is at least twice that.
The increase in taxes has Mrs. IndyErnie a mild mannered lady, up in arms.
Keep in mind that she puts up with IndyErnie daily, making her a very patient person. For her to step out in protest is unusual.
I saw the same look on the faces of most of the women in attendance.
Upset the Mom’s by attacking the livelihood of their families and they won’t forget come election time.
Local politicians have opened a can of worms.
T too did not notice any African Americans either in AI's photos or on the telivised newsclips. Unfortunately they were not spared by the taxman either and will have far more difficult time in making ends meet as a result. There are at least 3 black families on my street that will most likely not be able to afford to stay in their homes.
ReplyDeleteIt is sad that most of the new white residents in the "trendy neighborhoods" like Meridian Kessler and Butler Tarkington consider all neighborhoods outside of their own to be nothing but crime infested ghettos unworthy of attention. This is not the case nor has it ever been.
The new landed gentry can afford to move out but Johnny Lunchbucket on the near eastside can't afford to.
BTW, the average tax increase on my street is 78% and all residents here but two are homeowners NOT rentors.
All things considered on a percentage basis of land value and personal income it is the working poor that are hit the hardest on this tax increase.
This same scenario happened in Detroit so are we really surprised?
Pertinent history: on June 28th the Star carried a story about how of the 20 largest U.S. cities in 1950, all but four lost population. Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Buffalo lost half their people. In contrast, Indianapolis doubled in population! Population growth was steady decade after decade...
ReplyDeleteFYI: the Census Bureau population estimate for Indianapolis for 2006 is 785,597 - an increase of about 3,760 since 2000.
ReplyDeleteWilson, you're becoming fingernails on a blackboard...someone bashes ANY Democrat, and you come up with something out of left field as your best defense. Stop already.
ReplyDeleteSometimes, it isn't necessary to defend Democratic politicians. Believe it or not, most of the current property tax problems were somewhat inherited by them, but they still make mistakes.
And they deserve to get jabbed when they do.
Which is what they're getting now.
Max's comments were civilized. You just don't recognize civilization. There was no need whatsoever for any poster to point out Horning's residential status now or in 2004. None.
That being said, if Andy and crew wanted the gov to hear, they should've had their protest at Geist. He hasn't lived in that residence since the day he was sworn in. Which is a bit of a stocking point with many.
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ReplyDeleteI found Max's taunt of 'idiot' rather ludicrous and childish. 'Democrap' is kinda uncouth too.
ReplyDeleteLet's leave the puerile name-calling to school playgrounds and have decent discussions here without calling each other idiots and democraps. Mmmkay?
IQ 159? Wilson?
ReplyDelete#159, are you sure that's not the product code on your hair color box?
I dunno -- you'll have to ask Zach at 'Just Hair' - it's a professional coloring system involving letters and numbers... besides, the color changes every couple of months...
ReplyDelete"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
ReplyDeleteFrom the Declaration of Independence. God Bless America.
Happy 4th of July Wilson.
ReplyDeleteAndrew Horning quietly sold his Broad Ripple house and moved out of Indianapolis in 2004 during his Congressional race - he now lives down in Owen County.
ReplyDeleteSmart move!
I think it is interesting that your crowd was middle-to-upper class Caucasions. Are they too good for a second job? If you want to stay in an area than you need to learn how to bring home the bacon.
Better yet, why don't they just all move away leaving welfare trash the only "working" people left in the city. Then again, maybe they can just not work like thousands of others in this city. They can flock to Wishard for free health care, sign up for food stamps, and get money via an ATM Hoosier Works card. Why deal with the stress of wondering if your going to be able to pay all your bills when you can just pop out bastard after bastard and get a taxpayer funded apartment? The fact is that government is nailing the well-to-do neighborhoods in order to pay for everyone's demands for various services. On a plus side, it is great that so many liberal types in these areas are finally seeing the problem with progressive governments: In order to please everyone, you have to fork over the money!!! Considering that not many blacks or hispanics live in these areas, that likely has to be one reason why there were no minority folks. Go ahead, keep slamming what is likely the only wealthy people left in the county!! If anything, they will sell for a loss and move out, taking all their money with them.
In contrast, Indianapolis doubled in population! Population growth was steady decade after decade...
Yup, and we are now seeing the problems this will bring. When welfare types are having upwards of four or six kids, all needing their own welfare, and the working producing population limits themselves to two kids, eventually you will run out of money. Taxes will continue to be raised to please everyone. Indy will end up following the path of other shells of former cities. Who can afford $500/month rent to the government in addition to the mortgage payments based on a purchase price of $300K?
When your population is growing because welfare types are staying and giving births to multiple kids, that is not a good thing Wilson. It is just more mouths to feed and their parents can't afford to feed them. Thus, time to steal more money from others.
Old Pastor Malthus resuscitated again for an anti-people argument in Indianapolis? How prolific "inferiors" were going to out-breed the "superior classes"? This theory was advanced over 200 years ago but strangely enough, it still hasn't happened yet. Oh well...
ReplyDeleteThis theory was advanced over 200 years ago but strangely enough, it still hasn't happened yet.
ReplyDeleteThis country now has a negative savings rate. That means people spend more than they make. It would have happened 200 years, however the powers that be made sure of that. You see, you just print more money. Not only that, you offer HELOCs and other credit products to keep your producers happy. Eventually, everything hits a brick wall. There will not be enough producers to support the consumer. There will not be enough "free money" (ie: available cheap credit) to all the producers to be vastly better than the consumers. As such, millions will ditch hardwork and become a consumer. Why bust your ass when you can do nothing and still live the same life?
Update
ReplyDeleteIndianapolis was bumped down to the 13th largest city as reported in today's Star.
That article actually was in the June 28th edition of the Star -- yes, Jacksonville grew a little faster and slightly overtook Indpls in ranking finally ... this city is still increasing in population however.
ReplyDeleteTo compare so-called growth in Indianapolis to the other cities who lost population since 1950, who could not expand their boundaries ,and who do not have ten school districts in their boundaries is ludicrous. All of the growth has been in the townships, which, without unigov would be the suburbs of a city (old city limits) with a declining population.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth, I know Greg Ballard and know he would gladly have been there if not for a prior commitment. Respect him for the decison or not, but he's a man of his word, even if keeping it isn't necessarily the politically expedient move. I think that's sort of refreshing...
ReplyDeleteTAX & SPEND...the motto of the Democrats.
ReplyDeleteWell, the time has come: We are going to have the Boston Tea Party that removes Bart from office!
The people of Indianapolis do NOT want it renamed "South Gary" and we will NOT allow Bart's "TAX & SPEND" policies for his cronies like Carl Drummer & Tony Duncan to continue!
Howard:
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of your son, TAXING & SPENDING on RICH?????
Howard, when Castleton was being invented, you were an honest, decent, & respectable man. Now, your son is TAXING & SPENDING & created the Ghetto Mafia that is destroying Indianapolis, causing many to start calling it "South Gary".
Please tell us your feelings about your son...
P.S. Two deputies died defending Howard's interests, and he named streets in his office park for them. Today, Bart refused them cost-of-living raises, increased taxes on their homes, and increased their County Income Tax.
Wilson, your dead wrong on the growth of "Indianapolis".
ReplyDeleteIf UNIGOV had not been created the population of Indianapolis today would be 330,000.
In 1969 prior to UNIGOV the population of Indianapolis was 486,000.
Today, in 2007, the population of pre-UNIGOV Indianapolis is 330,000.
Since 1969 more than 156,000 people have moved out of the original city limits of Indianapolis. This is a population loss of 32%.
Detroit does not have UNIGOV and had a population loss of just under 50%. This compares to a 32% population decline in an Indianapolis had Indianapolis NOT created UNIGOV in that same time period.
When 156,000 people (mostly white middle class) left the original city of Indianapolis they moved to the townships. They took their businesses and there money with them. The went to the townships. Now they have left the townships and moved to the donut counties. As a result, the old suburbs in the townships are becoming as blighted as the old city of Indianapolis is today and it's getting worse.
It is no wonder that Indianapolis has over 13,000 abandoned houses and businesses. That's what happens when 156,000 people leave.
By contrast, Detroit has just under 12,000 abandoned houses.
Make no mistake about it, there will be another white flight out of Marion County that will pale in comparison to anything like it in the past.
Take a drive around the neighborhoods outside Detroit like I did a month ago and you will see what the future holds for the neighborhoods like yours and mine that are in the old city limits of Indianapolis. Anyone who thinks that Meridian Kessler and Butler Tarkington can't turn into a wasteland hasn't seen the neighborhoods that were like them in Detroit and Cleveland.
As one of the organizers of the event I cannot express how thrilled I am by the attendance. We put the press conference together in just a couple days. Andy Horning dropped everything and immediately got involved. Andy has worked tirelessly on this issue for many years and has sacrificed much to do the work he’s done for us so far. We all owe a debt of gratitude to him. If any of you want to write to him, he can be reached at andrewhorning@hotmail.com
ReplyDeleteI also want to thank the cops who blocked off Meridian Street and gave the crowd more room for the press conference.
The Governor has the economic study for the Fair Tax now. He was also sent a Fair Tax book by Indiana State Fair Tax Director, Ron Heilman.
I appreciated the message from Governor Daniels that we picked the appropriate day to hold the event. I also hope our Governor understands we picked the Governor's Mansion because it is the symbolic home of Indiana and it is our very homes that are being threatened by Peterson's runaway spending and inefficiency.
We came to the Governor because we believe he cares and will be moved when he sees the will of The People for the Indiana Fair Tax. We also know the Governor has the wearwithall to push hard agendas forward.
The next event is the city council public hearing on July 16 at 5:30. You can get the ball rolling now by contacting your council persons to demand that they vote against Bart Peterson's Income Tax hike and by voting AGAINST Peterson at the next election.
If our council persons were on the ball they would be pushing a proposal to do a thorough audit of city-county government STARTING with the wasteful and expensive political agendas of Bart Peterson.
Monroe Gray, my council person for Meridian Kessler/Butler Tarkington neighborhood, will not return my emails or phone calls.
I called Jackie Nytes (D) and she called back but wanted no part of an efficiency audit or accountability for spending. Scott Keller (R) told me he's voting to approve Peterson's tax hike and believes there is not waste in city government. I wonder if he has some kind of side deal going on with the Mayor in exchange for his vote. Who knows.
We need to hold these councilor’s feet to the fire and force them to be accountable for the mess that is Marion County at the moment. We need to give them a stern reminder that they are submissive to WE THE PEOPLE.
I have no doubt that The People will have their way, nor do I have doubt that our numbers will grow substantially larger with each event.
We hope that the police will still continue to back our efforts to peacefully assemble and conduct a bullet free tax revolution in Indiana.
THANKS GARY !
8:21 has some good points, but the Meridian-Kessler argument just doesn't ring true.
ReplyDeleteThe market will adjust, which it's needed to do for a long time, and these homes will move. I've been to Detroit, and Cleveland...the comparable neighborhoods are still stable. Different, but stable.
M-K has likely been underpaying for years. It's difficult to muster sympathy. If you can afford a $350-600K home, you can't afford $3500 more or $5000 more in taxes? Inconvenient, and troubling, yeah. But enough to push you over the edge and move out?
My best college bud just turned 40 and bought a beautiful new home in Geist. He had us up over the weekend to show it off. It has five empty rooms. He can't afford furniture right now. I bit my tongue. He paid somewhere near 800K for the house, but he can't furnish it. I'm betting if he got a property tax surprise, he'd be pushed out, but it wouldn't be because of the tax solely. It's all about your priorities.
Do you need Suze Orman to come over and give you some budget lessons? Your priorities have to shift now, if you want to stay there. Don't blame the taxes on that, at least not entirely. If you're living in that kind of tight budgetary situation, you were likely over-housed to begin with.
Still, our government needs to do a better job of this. Much better.
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ReplyDeleteWith all due respect to those that live in Meridian-Kessler, chances are if you live there, you should be the last to complain since you probably better off than anyone else in Washington Twnshp. I live in an older home in Broad Ripple and my property taxes have skyrocketted too. The difference is that I probably don't make nearly the income that many in MK do.... I would have loved to come to this rally but was this even marketed outside of MK?
ReplyDeleteI heard about this event on this and several other blogs. It was a quick spur of the moment event. I am sure if anyone else wanted to do the same thing in any other neighborhood ( Rich or Poor ) they are more than welcome to do so. I came from Pike to particiapte.
ReplyDeletePike Voter
And it was listed in the Just 1 minute section of the Star on Tuesday. I presume it was both Online and in the paper
ReplyDelete( From Online )
Tax tiff: Holiday protest set for governor's residence
What's a Fourth of July without an all-American tax protest in front of the governor's residence?
More than 100 people plan to start their holiday festivities Wednesday outside the home in the 4700 block of North Meridian Street to promote replacing property taxes with a sales tax.
The event begins at 10:30 a.m., and organizer Andrew Horning, a former congressional candidate, is promising more than a protest of "the out-of-control Indiana property tax mess."
He and Americans for Fair Taxation say a sales tax is a "fair, progressive, simple (and) politically neutral" alternative.
Well if they had 400 people in such a short-planned event, think of how many they could have had a well-planned one. Jumping the gun in this case seems pretty inefficient to me.
ReplyDeleteI suppose SOMEONE had to start SOMEWHERE. Even if it was not perfectly planned or timed it did get the ball rolling.
ReplyDeleteEven as individuals we can do things. Show up at the next city-count council meeting and voice your opinion there.
For those that could not make it.
ReplyDeleteSome You Tube Videos. Thanks to S. Shepard.
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv7BTWHolRc
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N_neK0XTuU
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81vDJjNXTl8
I for one would love to see FairTax implemented at the state and national level.
ReplyDeleteI'm in a long term, same-sex relationship and this type of taxation goes a long way towards fixing some of the inequalities in today's tax code.
At the national level there is a concept of a prebate, which once understood, will have taxpayers begging for same sex couples to be recognized.
As for property tax - I see this as a terrible way to motivate people. You would not be incented to improve your property or your neighborhood. It will also force landlords to raise rents.