tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post4221643989501116219..comments2024-03-25T13:42:25.771-05:00Comments on Advance Indianaâ„¢: It's The Pensions, StupidGary R. Welshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15185079937305083438noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-49757606648030259732011-05-05T22:15:38.672-05:002011-05-05T22:15:38.672-05:00I can not believe people are complaining about Pol...I can not believe people are complaining about Police and Firfighters drawing their pension after 20 years or more of service. They had to work other jobs just to support their families because the pay was not enough to support a family. They paid into their own retirements. The firefighters have a lot of heath issues later on in life because of all of the smoke that they have taken into their lungs. They usually are not able to draw pensions from their 2nd jobs because they are usually working part time jobs with no benefits. They have had to work at other jobs in order to get Social Security 50% of the pay is certainly not that much it is not as much as what most people receive from factory jobs that have been funded by the government. <br />If anything people should be saying how wonderful it is that these people have risked their lifes for you to be able to sleep peacefully at night while they were watching out for your safty.Donice Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15407055511362578989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-16281677009451936572007-07-27T20:14:00.000-05:002007-07-27T20:14:00.000-05:00I'm sorry for your condition, Detective. However 7...I'm sorry for your condition, Detective. However 74% is<BR/>too much it seems to me. I<BR/>am just wondering....does<BR/>a soldier who is wounded in<BR/>combat suffering for the rest<BR/>of his life gets 74%?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-37753591083825991792007-07-19T01:33:00.000-05:002007-07-19T01:33:00.000-05:00This is retired DET. STEVE RENDLEMAN, MARION COUNT...This is retired DET. STEVE RENDLEMAN, MARION COUNTY SHERIFF, I was in traffic accident on 6/31/2005. My back injury forced an end to 31 years of service to this county. I payed into my pension for 31 years. So now i am retired in line of duty with pain every day that no med operation can fix, I can not walk, with out pain, play golf or hunt any more. At 54 yoa my career is over.I asak any one who thinks that this is too much that I get 74% of my last year pay for permanet injury, I will trade them places to have my life back again 7/19/2007Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-17743289039203138382007-07-18T20:12:00.000-05:002007-07-18T20:12:00.000-05:00Add some 0's to the cost for the 1953 pension. It...Add some 0's to the cost for the 1953 pension. It should be $400-$700 million dollars underfunded. Now its right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-4644775764628782822007-07-18T20:09:00.001-05:002007-07-18T20:09:00.001-05:00Some of you have no idea what you are talking abou...Some of you have no idea what you are talking about. The real "pension problem" is elected people prior to 1977 took the money out of this fund and used it for other city services or simply did not contribute the city's share. That's why there is a problem now. It is now short any where from $4-$7 million dollars. And ever since then no mayor including peterson will do what it takes to get it back on its feet. Several ideas have been given to him and the council to help fix it. So pick who is worse the people who mis-spent the money or didn't contribute to it or the people who refuse to fix the problem. Don't blame the policemen and firemen for protecting and serving you for several years. Blame the elected people you voted into office who will not fix the problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-73423319230998473262007-07-18T20:09:00.000-05:002007-07-18T20:09:00.000-05:00Some of you have no idea what you are talking abou...Some of you have no idea what you are talking about. The real "pension problem" is elected people prior to 1977 took the money out of this fund and used it for other city services or simply did not contribute the city's share. That's why there is a problem now. It is now short any where from $4-$7 million dollars. And ever since then no mayor including peterson will do what it takes to get it back on its feet. Several ideas have been given to him and the council to help fix it. So pick who is worse the people who mis-spent the money or didn't contribute to it or the people who refuse to fix the problem. Don't blame the policemen and firemen for protecting and serving you for several years. Blame the elected people you voted into office who will not fix the problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-9934519637048884512007-07-18T13:41:00.000-05:002007-07-18T13:41:00.000-05:00Anon, with one or two exceptions, your anger shoul...Anon, with one or two exceptions, your anger should be directed squarely at Gary. He is the one taking the indefensible position that these pensions are outrageous.<BR/><BR/>The rest of us completely respect and appreciate what these men and women in uniform do for all of us.Jacob Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15659919624213074419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-18123872413796735302007-07-18T10:51:00.000-05:002007-07-18T10:51:00.000-05:00Wow, I can't wait for my husband to hit his 20 yea...Wow, I can't wait for my husband to hit his 20 year mark and retire. After an interminable 2 year wait, we can collect that huge pension! We'll be rich!! I'm going to use 20 dollar bils as toilet paper!! I'm going to light up a big fat cigar with a hundred! <BR/>You cheap, want to be hand held for nothing hoosiers are getting a good deal. The pension under perf isn't that great. The police and fire work holidays and weekends for no extra pay. The police are routinely made to work overtime they are not paid for, but are made to take as trade days. If you are involved in a police action shooting, you are treated like a criminal and given an indictment for homicide and made to go to grand jury. I will soon be paying for my husband to go back to school. Like the former firefighter who traded time with coworkers, what he does on his own time is his business. Then, after 20 years of this crappy job, he can work a second job so we can afford a roof over our heads. The social security he will pay into in his second career will not be fully paid out to him, it will be greatly reduced since he will be in perf. If he does not work a second career, he will get very little social security for the part time jobs he works now.<BR/>The taxpayers need to decide. Do you want a professional police force or not? If not, have the mayor dissolve the force and everyone can fend for himself. The place to cut budgets is not on the backs of the people who put their lives on the line to protect you. Start with tax abatements for Bart's buddies. Cancel the million dollar printing contract Jackie Nytes has with the city. Talk about should be illegal to be on the CCC. Police and fire are citizens. It is not illegal for them to be on the CCC or to vote on matters that concern them. They are there to represent their voters. And I know that Lincoln Plowman is doing what he thinks is best for the citizens of Indy. <BR/>BTW, the police don't support the tax increases. Even with the raises it is supposed to support, the police will be bringing home even less money than before.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-54033719549613750212007-07-18T09:17:00.000-05:002007-07-18T09:17:00.000-05:00I'm Bob Croddy? Seriously, that has to be the funn...I'm Bob Croddy? Seriously, that has to be the funniest think I've had anyone tell me for quite some time. Especially considering I haven't exactly spared poor Bob on my blog in the past.<BR/><BR/>But I'm flattered that you guys are concerned enough to try and decipher my identity.<BR/><BR/>BTW Gary, way to try and deflect from the real issue, which was your baseless attack against our LEO's and firefighters.<BR/><BR/>And no, many readers are well aware of your reputation for anti-Christian bigotry. While your hatred and spewed venom doesn't quite rise to the levels earned by the true hypocrites over at bilerico.com and pseudoblog TDW, you've got a well earned rep in your own right.<BR/><BR/>Just because I (and most Christians, particularly those who have actually read Scripture) believe homosexuality is a sin, doesn't make me a bigot or a hypocrite. But your lame attempts to paint us as such has become quite superficial.<BR/><BR/>Again, not a big supporter of Miller and I don't know Clark, but we're not all the same, anymore than I expect you watch "Queer Eye" and listen to Barry Manilow all of the time.<BR/><BR/>Again, I'm flattered by all of the interest in my identity, it must mean I'm hitting the mark somewhere.Jacob Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15659919624213074419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-710699932451032492007-07-18T08:34:00.000-05:002007-07-18T08:34:00.000-05:00Gary, Scribe is Robert Croddy, the financial consu...Gary, Scribe is Robert Croddy, the financial consultant who lives out in Warren Township and dropped out of the 7th District Congressional race after he failed to garner any support. He later tried to become Marion Co. GOP chairman and got nowhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-40036546700300109482007-07-18T07:45:00.000-05:002007-07-18T07:45:00.000-05:00Scribe writes, "one thing you'll never get from me...Scribe writes, "one thing you'll never get from me is an anonymous post. Never" as he writes an anonymous post. Shall we say "hypocrite" ala Eric Miller and Micah Clark. You call me a "Christian basher", presuming the persons I criticize using my real identity are adhering to the Christian faith. I think a lot of the readers here would think you presume a little too much in this case.Gary R. Welshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15185079937305083438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-90393814862935768552007-07-18T00:06:00.000-05:002007-07-18T00:06:00.000-05:00Don't you worry Gary, one thing you'll never get f...Don't you worry Gary, one thing you'll never get from me is an anonymous post. Never.<BR/><BR/>Just because it seems to bug you, I've never met Micah Clark and have no connection at all to Eric Miller (haven't spoken to him in probably ten years). I'm not a big fan of Miller's, and have stated so publicly.<BR/><BR/>Good luck outing me, as there are maybe two people besides my wife who know my identity, and believe me they are no fans of yours either.<BR/><BR/>Besides, are you admitting that I'm getting under your skin a bit?<BR/><BR/>Don't like being called out from your high and mighty perch?<BR/><BR/>Good luck digging yourself from this hole. You can Christian bash all you want, plenty of company there. But disgracefully attacking our community public safety officers is another thing altogether. You may not recover from this, though surely the Rainbow Brigade will come to your rescue.Jacob Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15659919624213074419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-56003368282552382152007-07-17T23:45:00.000-05:002007-07-17T23:45:00.000-05:00FYI, Gary, officers from the former IPD do not pay...FYI, Gary, officers from the former IPD do not pay into Social Security but do pay into Medicaid. The only way these people receive Social Security benefits for retirement is if they work other jobs that do pay into Social Security, and even then they won't see much, if any, of it because of the money they receive in pensions.<BR/><BR/>While people like Janet and Tom Cotton might have a comfortable retirement, note that health care for retired police and firefighters is available but takes a SIGNIFICANT portion of those pensions. And the MO of the past three mayors (at least) has been to find ways to increase police compensation that does not increase that base pay, so the retirees get minimal to no increase.<BR/><BR/>I'll not deny that police officers and firefighters make a decent income, but would YOU do what they have to do every day for that kind of pay?<BR/><BR/>Just setting some facts straight and giving you some points to ponder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-71633108102979823792007-07-17T22:17:00.000-05:002007-07-17T22:17:00.000-05:00Scribe, anon, whatever you're calling yourself the...Scribe, anon, whatever you're calling yourself these day, you are going to be outed by name. Are you prepared? I understand you're trying to do the dirty work of Eric Miller and Micah Clark, but you're doing a pretty poor job at that.Gary R. Welshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15185079937305083438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-83274482910560654952007-07-17T22:02:00.000-05:002007-07-17T22:02:00.000-05:00I used to like this Blog...but after your post abo...I used to like this Blog...but after your post about the pensions I will not be back....and I hope that Indy U removes your link from its page...F.O.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-18849479888209049112007-07-17T21:59:00.000-05:002007-07-17T21:59:00.000-05:00You might want to check out the Star's database di...You might want to check out the Star's database disclosing how much our public safety officers are being paid. I don't want to hear another one of them complain they are underpaid, not even taking into account the fact that many have take home cars they use for personal use and private security jobs. I see many of these people earning $50,000, $60,000, $70,000 and even more than $80,000 a year who have other full time jobs or businesses. Hell, the chief of police, Mike Spears, has a high-paying job working security for the Colts on the side. I respect the work our public safety workers do, but I'm not going to look the other way at all that is wrong within their operations. They are the biggest part of the city budget. If you are unwilling to scrutinize what's happening there, then you may as well bend over and take a lot more of what everyone is up in arms about--skyrocketing taxes. You can't get the budget under control unless you tackle the public safety budgets.Gary R. Welshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15185079937305083438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-66214335358328639862007-07-17T21:56:00.000-05:002007-07-17T21:56:00.000-05:00Indiana's PERF really is not that great...take a l...Indiana's PERF really is not that great...take a look at Florida. Most cities an officer can retire after 20yrs at 67% of base and start drawing the pension up on retirement. Indiana it is 50% at 20yrs and you cannot draw till you are 52yoa. At approx 27yrs in Florida they can retire at 83% of the base pay..The reason the 53 pension fund in Indiana is under funded is because the the politicians dipped into the pension fund for years(they cannnot do that with the 77 fund)..and never paid back the money into the fund...the 77 fund is fine....So why don't you get off the backs of the Policeman and Fireman..because they are breaking their backs for you everday....If you want to get upset about something how about the money the professional athletes are pulling down...Dwight Freny 72million over 5yrs..playing in a stadium we are all paying for...and don't forget about the CEO's and their outlandish salaries....Think about it!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-63947767965788799752007-07-17T21:33:00.000-05:002007-07-17T21:33:00.000-05:00To the retired firefighter and current LEO, thank ...To the retired firefighter and current LEO, thank you for your service. You are entitled to every penny (if not more) you receive from us.<BR/><BR/>There are still quite a few of us who appreciate what you do in this community.Jacob Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15659919624213074419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-33598669001807315972007-07-17T21:22:00.000-05:002007-07-17T21:22:00.000-05:00-A few points:1. Police & Fire service is high-st...-A few points:<BR/><BR/>1. Police & Fire service is high-stress and dangerous.<BR/><BR/>2. If you want someone with the courage and ability to perform the service, then you must compensate them fairly.<BR/><BR/>3. If you want a fireman to save your baby inside a burning building, that fireman better know that if he is disabled when the floor collapses, he & his family will be taken care of. If you want a policeman to take on a crazed maniac so that you may be saved and risk throwing a disk the policeman's back, or getting a broken bone, then he must know he & his family will be taken care of.<BR/><BR/>4. Do you want an experienced person to respond and make good decisions based on training & experience? Then he must know when his career is over, the fireman or policeman & their family will be taken care of.<BR/><BR/>5. Just how much chance to save us will these heros take, if they know their efforts may cause them disability and they'll lose their home & be in bancruptcy? -I dare say they'd stand back & play it safe.<BR/><BR/>After 20 years, they deserve their pension & medical coverage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-53726456887526736982007-07-17T16:48:00.000-05:002007-07-17T16:48:00.000-05:00It seems like folks think that only lawyers and do...It seems like folks think that only lawyers and doctors should be "rich." Sorry, but I don't buy that. Anymore, other lines of work seem to require more and more demands than in the past. Nursing seems to have gotten their wages in line with what the job demands. Police officers are more likely to be sued more and more in the coming years. Law enforcement is getting so bad, I will do my best to steer my kids totally away from that job. There is no reason to put up with the crap you have to deal with. More and more I see cops choosing re-active police work instead of pro-active. Unless they actually see a crime being committed, they do nothing. More and more flat out refuse to even "play the game" or "play the system" where you just stop someone on the sidewalk and say "Hey, do you care if I talk to you?" or something like that. Playing the game has been helpful in getting some nasty folks off the street. Those folks are now going to be staying on the street. The demands for cops to be cops and social workers is just too much. As far as the off-duty pay, I don't see this any different than any other job. A lawyer or doctor might work 80 hours a week starting out, but they are usually making good money or at least have the ability to earn some real good money. I have learned to be frugal on my poor police wage (I don't work for a big department so I don't get a take home car. I am not covered under insurance if I work off-duty, so I don't do that.). That being said, I am hoping that one day I can tell them to take that badge and shove it. I have no desire to work for Indy metro. I see the crap those folks put up with on a daily basis. If I were young and on metro, I would be looking toward Carmel, state police, etc. and let the cesspools continue their meltdown. Ghetto law enforcement is the only reason most of us are allowed to live a decent life here in the US. They get paid ok, especially for the hours worked. While I know the typical response is "They knew the pay and job starting, so they need to stop complaining." I have to say I agree to a point. Most folks are geared toward getting on job and staying there. Law enforcement is like that, but changing. The era of generational policing will eventually come to an end. Even if my kids become cops, I will do whatever I can to steer them away from major city law enforcement. Why deal with layabouts and bums all day when you can work in nicer areas for almost the same money? Go ahead and keep bashing cops and their horrible $26K/year retirement. This will help me prove my point about law enforcement becoming a lose-lose career choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-46356686512687546172007-07-17T14:34:00.000-05:002007-07-17T14:34:00.000-05:00LEO here. Don't forget the difference in the pensi...LEO here. Don't forget the difference in the pensions. There is the 1953 and the 1977 pensions. The old one is the one thats killing the city because it is the cities alone and most of the people on it are now collecting and not contributing anymore. The new PERF helped offset some of those problems. These pensions are built to give fire and police peace of mind. Police and Fire are not supposed to worry about who takes care of them and their families if they are injured doing their job. These jobs are dangerous (period). Do you really want a cop or fireman to 2nd guess if he should or shouldn't at least try to help. It's easy for the single man but those with family may hesitate. Police and fire also suffer more injuries and usually retire dinged up from service. Not to mention the silent killer of stress which is getting a closer look at every year. Police and fire learn to ramp up and dump adrenaline because of their type of work and as you get older this takes a toll on the body. It isn't a one time injury so no one used to care. I myself have had 4 crashes, 23 stitches, 6 ribs cracked, and a few pints of blood spilled. I know many officers that have had more. These pensions are made for rough men doing rough work. We have 90 sick days a year that we usually don't use because we know we may need them for that time we really break hard. Think about that while your counting your pennies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-70965248036233644512007-07-17T13:09:00.000-05:002007-07-17T13:09:00.000-05:00Scribe, you aren't have as clever as you think you...<I>Scribe, you aren't have as clever as you think you are.</I><BR/><BR/>Anon 11:32, that's the only part of your post you got right.Jacob Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15659919624213074419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-69794941472079762942007-07-17T12:10:00.000-05:002007-07-17T12:10:00.000-05:00Since I am a firefighter and am planning to retire...Since I am a firefighter and am planning to retire soon, i just hope you people realize what firefighters and police officers go through. I have have had burn hands, ears, blistered knees crawling aroung a burning house trying to find people trapped inside. that's not including the enormous amounts of smoke I have inhaled into my lungs just to try and save someone else's property or life. The small amount that I will get for my pension should be enough to take care of me but with paying for my health care after retirement half of what I may get has to go to helath insurance. The same goes for my police brothers who get spit on and deal with crack/meth heads daily. I find it hard to believe that you are trying to make our pensions an issue. Next time your home is on fire or you need a poice officer think about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-9471980960919152002007-07-17T11:59:00.000-05:002007-07-17T11:59:00.000-05:00This blog had been a favorite of mine to read a li...This blog had been a favorite of mine to read a little different perspective, and or point of view. Lately that has changed and it's like Rosie O'Donnell has become the editor. At least we know the agenda of Wilson and TDW but I'm surprised at Advance Indiana. <BR/><BR/>Those numbers are low for anyone trying to live after retirement on a public servants salary. I am against retiring then being hired back at an exorbitant salary but that seems to be Frank Anderson's doing. PERF that I am under has a 24,000 salary cap.<BR/><BR/>Gary, maybe you need a relaxing vacation and rethink some of the hostility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-43942376437677045172007-07-17T11:32:00.000-05:002007-07-17T11:32:00.000-05:00Gary is right. These pensions are completely out o...Gary is right. These pensions are completely out of control. This latest tax increase is just a stop gap measure. We will have to raise taxes again in a few years to cover the costs of the pensions if we don't do something fast to get the costs under control. Scribe, you aren't have as clever as you think you are. This has nothing to do about supporting our public safety workers so stop trying to demagogue this issue. The taxpayers simply can't afford the cost of this current system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com