tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post7381072740995832188..comments2024-03-25T13:42:25.771-05:00Comments on Advance Indianaâ„¢: Now Let's Talk About That $15 Million For The PacersGary R. Welshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15185079937305083438noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-73989146655921182702009-08-14T14:43:18.366-05:002009-08-14T14:43:18.366-05:00Chris,
The Pacers contract can be found at www.ca...Chris,<br /><br />The Pacers contract can be found at www.capitalimprovementboard.org.<br /><br />My reading the contract (which is about as poorly written and organized contract one could imagine) is that in order for the 10 year out to apply: 1) the Pacers must show they're losing money; 2) they have to sell the team; and 3) the team must relocate. If those three condtions are not met, they can't take the early out.<br /><br />If it is a situation in which the team can take an early out, the Pacers must pay a penalty. The penalty is based on a percentage, which declines year after year, times what the team sold for. In 2009 that percentage is 50%. So if the team is sold for $300 Million this year, the penalty is $150 million. There is an alternative method of calculating damages that can apply. The lower controls.<br /><br />The penalty for early termination is quite substantial. Still the pacers would have to be selling the team for it to apply. That's how I read the contract, which horrible to read and interpret.Paul K. Ogdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137003328850866711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-5042319195030282852009-08-14T09:05:31.787-05:002009-08-14T09:05:31.787-05:00It is outrageous that the Pacers claim that they h...It is outrageous that the Pacers claim that they have never made any money should go unchallenged.<br /><br />Releasing partial and unaudited financials to a few friendly insiders, who are forced to sign non disclosure agreements, is NOT enough to convince anyone with ANY brains to believe this fairy tale that the Simons are not making money on their Pacers entertainment enterprise.<br /><br />Public disclosure of audited financial statements from the Pacers and all other related entertainment companies along with legal affidavits from the team owners, accountants, auditors, and bankers would be a good start to legitimacy and creditability.<br /><br />Anything less should be disregarded as fantasy and possibly a crime.a smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00841680321066276464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-39241515921131042112009-08-13T20:18:05.276-05:002009-08-13T20:18:05.276-05:00AI:
I thought you had posted the Pacers contract ...AI:<br /><br />I thought you had posted the Pacers contract with the CIB, but I can't find it now. It strikes me as strange that a party would agree to an "opt out" provision based on something as ambiguous as "financial hardship" without any concrete definition, doesn't it? I'm hoping there was at least some methodology for determining what constituted "financial hardship," otherwise, isn't it arguably whatever the Simons say it is?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09014178815683230243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-66103831150731141142009-08-13T17:30:44.522-05:002009-08-13T17:30:44.522-05:00Is this page what you're looking for?
http://...Is this page what you're looking for?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/Pages/2010Budget.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/Pages/2010Budget.aspx</a>Monty Baskinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14329637797674256128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-48081955982847699962009-08-13T16:08:58.107-05:002009-08-13T16:08:58.107-05:00He's definitely hospitalized with a serious il...He's definitely hospitalized with a serious illness. For some reason, the family doesn't want the public to know more than that, although his brother, Herb, made a point in making a public statement about the need to pray for him at an event filled with prominent citizens and several from the news media recently as reported in the Star.Gary R. Welshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15185079937305083438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-83193737949153067762009-08-13T15:54:54.636-05:002009-08-13T15:54:54.636-05:00word on the street is that Mel Simon has pancreati...word on the street is that Mel Simon has pancreatic cancer and is terminal. Can anyone confirm?JudgeNothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13738417177257644421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-62338003576912323012009-08-13T15:07:03.905-05:002009-08-13T15:07:03.905-05:00Has anyone actually seen the budget numbers beyond...Has anyone actually seen the budget numbers beyond the press releases? I'm still trying to find where the actual budget is. You sure as hell can't find it on that lousy indy.gov website, perhaps one of the worst government websites I've ever visited.Gary R. Welshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15185079937305083438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-53605875436380578732009-08-13T14:17:11.453-05:002009-08-13T14:17:11.453-05:00Paul - we are talking about the 2010 budget. Expe...Paul - we are talking about the 2010 budget. Expected revenues and expected expenses. The DLGF and the taxing units aren't new to this and their estimates are conservative.jabberdoodlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12773449819475280421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-9993551620218718812009-08-13T12:59:23.095-05:002009-08-13T12:59:23.095-05:00Jabber,
I guess I'm still confused. Are we t...Jabber,<br /><br />I guess I'm still confused. Are we talking about tax revenues are up or expected tax revenues are up.<br /><br />If it's the latter, then I would question the assumption that tax revenues will rise during a recession. It doesn't usually work that way.Paul K. Ogdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137003328850866711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-39827803332738575072009-08-13T11:42:45.185-05:002009-08-13T11:42:45.185-05:00I'm thinking the CIB could give every househol...I'm thinking the CIB could give every household a new HD 52" flatpanel TV and beer for a year - and it would be cheaper than maintaining the Pacers here.<br /><br />Let 'em go elsewhere and we can all watch on our new TVs.Downtown Indyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06239811599722585898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-82073785861471292402009-08-13T11:04:52.990-05:002009-08-13T11:04:52.990-05:00...and while I'm at it, the Pacers can just le......and while I'm at it, the Pacers can just leave for all I care. Let the building sit empty, frak, I dont care if that costs us MORE money -- its better than giving it away to snotty billionaire sports team owners. For crying out loud, how in the h*ll did we get into a position where our local governments are held hostage by billionaire sports team owners? Its disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-39695049249730106462009-08-13T11:02:21.285-05:002009-08-13T11:02:21.285-05:00No Paul, the tax revenues are up. Again, mostly d...No Paul, the tax revenues are up. Again, mostly due to increases in the income tax revenues. All monies coming into the city are being accounted for. They do keep a separate line for stimulus money, so you can keep mental track of it - but it is in the paperwork of the budget. And rightly so.<br /><br />State and Federal grants and taxes (which includes stimulus money) is up $26M from 2009-2010. And they do put that to use for non-recurring charges. The $11M for three years for the 50 new police officers will not increase the total number of police beyond what the current budget supposedly funds. So, one might be able to say that the stimulus money maintains the status quo. Once the IMPD budget comes forth for hearing, this particular point should be clarified. So it is not clear at this point, to me anyway, if the number of police will be increased so much that it will be a particular hardship to continue their funding once the stimulus cash is spent.<br /><br />Hope that makes some sense. Tax revenue figures are obtained from the DLGF who monitor how much tax revenue is being collected by the Indiana Department of Revenue.<br /><br />The folks who are creating the budget are trying to keep it as accurate as possible. That I am fully convinced of. The PR machine is another matter. They want you to think that Mayor Ballard is hiking to the top of the mountain with a hundred pound rucksack on his back while it is more like he is taking a chair lift with a lunch sack in his lap.<br /><br />Bottom line is that the total revenues expected is up $65M from 2009 to 2010 - with $26M of that in new state and federal funds, which includes stimulus money. How they decide to spend that new money tells you what their priorities are.jabberdoodlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12773449819475280421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-15414413309190408622009-08-13T10:52:44.264-05:002009-08-13T10:52:44.264-05:00This absolutely disgusts me, and yet at the same t...This absolutely disgusts me, and yet at the same time I'm so not surprised at all. I think I've become completely disillusioned to all of this, at this point. It feels pointless to get angry about this sort of crap anymore. Ugh!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-53784901928781408102009-08-13T09:27:33.433-05:002009-08-13T09:27:33.433-05:00Jabber, I thought they weren't including the s...Jabber, I thought they weren't including the stimulus money when counting total revenue.<br /><br />I don't see the point in hiring more police officers with stimulus money. How are we going to pay for them later. (Wait...isn't that the City's motto ... don't worry about things until "later" happens.) I thought the stiumulus funds were supposed to be used for infrastructure projects, which would be an investment in our futre.<br /><br />I really think the Mayor's staff used highly rosy revenue projections to get to the balanced budget.Paul K. Ogdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137003328850866711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-60086652323676323052009-08-13T08:31:00.442-05:002009-08-13T08:31:00.442-05:00Oh, by the way. Okeson's statement about a &#...Oh, by the way. Okeson's statement about a 'tough financial situation' sounds like reverb coming from the PR machine. <br /><br />This budget takes in $65M more in revenue than the 2009 budget -- $27M more from local taxes (property and income, mostly)even after accounting for the tax caps -- $26M more from the State and Feds, including stimulus money. So, after subtracting grant and stimulus dollars that really should not be spent on recurring operating expenses, the City-County expects to take in $39M more than this year from all other sources. <br /><br />Its not exactly the dire financial quagmire that they are implying. $65M in new money can ease the difficulty of balancing a budget.jabberdoodlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12773449819475280421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-83598906514561853522009-08-13T08:05:04.552-05:002009-08-13T08:05:04.552-05:00"No doubt we're in a tough financial posi..."No doubt we're in a tough financial position"<br /><br />Isn't it the Pacers who are in a tough financial position? We've given them a facility to play in for free and they are still losing money (they say).<br /><br />"Everything is on the table"<br /><br />Everything, that is, except saying, "Sorry, but we're tapped out. You aren't the only ones who've been losing money for the past 20 years."Downtown Indyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06239811599722585898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-56949563673253963292009-08-13T08:01:32.319-05:002009-08-13T08:01:32.319-05:00Two year bandaid. I thought we could all agree on...Two year bandaid. I thought we could all agree on that point.<br /><br />I guess I was wrong.<br /><br />Lutz will be seeking more money for the ICVA during the CIB budget hearing. And, last night, Cockrum asked if the $16M going into the City's rainy day fund (proposed as part of the 2010 City-County budget) could then be spent on a 'municipal corporation'. I think that $16M comes from county option income tax money and I don't know what COIT money is legally allowed to be spent on. Hopefully they aren't looking at 'laundering' funds from one restricted fund to an unrestricted one to benefit the CIB. Hopefully it was simply a fleeting thought by Cockrum that does not take full flight.<br /><br />Two years. Hell, they couldn't even make it past 3 full days before their ungrateful hands were trying to pick more pockets.jabberdoodlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12773449819475280421noreply@blogger.com