tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post3463964784897078101..comments2024-03-25T13:42:25.771-05:00Comments on Advance Indianaâ„¢: Who Knew HHC Owned A Chain Of Nursing HomesGary R. Welshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15185079937305083438noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-19737485976431291912016-04-03T12:59:43.191-05:002016-04-03T12:59:43.191-05:00how fabulous to have a blogger community like that...how fabulous to have a blogger community like that! so jealous!Home Decor Toolshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00866439783510823039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-12840501834738885822009-07-22T10:45:59.312-05:002009-07-22T10:45:59.312-05:00Septly, I've never questioned the legality of ...Septly, I've never questioned the legality of owning the nursing homes. I don't think that a taxpayer-supported nonprofit created for Marion County residents should be engaged in competing against other nursing home owners across the state. Clearly, they have a big advantage over privately-owned nursing homes because of their tax-exempt status, leveraged with the tens of millions in direct cash grants it receives from the government annually. Every time they purchase another one of these nursing homes, they take it off the property tax rolls and the income tax rolls.Gary R. Welshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15185079937305083438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-13454405662026994332009-07-22T10:20:41.798-05:002009-07-22T10:20:41.798-05:00So, just in case my last comment got clipped. I w...So, just in case my last comment got clipped. I want to again post the clear and unambiguous grant of authority in the state law which specifically allows the HHC to operate OUTSIDE of Marion County:<br /><br />Indiana Code 16-22-8-37<br /><br />"Territorial extent of corporate powers<br /> Sec. 37. The powers, authority, and duties conferred on the corporation and the corporation's officers and employees under this chapter extend throughout the county and may extend outside the county on terms and conditions the board prescribes that are consistent with this chapter."<br /><br />There is no conspiracy. There is no violation of the law. I would like to see Advance Indiana acknowledge this.Septlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08641416292413589183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-22761317729275115052009-07-22T10:18:09.326-05:002009-07-22T10:18:09.326-05:00Oh, the paranoid continue in imagining phoney viol...Oh, the paranoid continue in imagining phoney violations of law and in criticizing a public institution for actually finding a way to raise revenue WITHOUT raising taxes. It is really amazing, usually this blog and its readers gripe about public institutions always running to the taxpayers for extra funding (nevermind that they ARE taxpayer-supported institutions...), but here we have an institution raising significant funds to help support itself and this blog thinks its a conspiracy worthy of a James Bond novel. The nursing homes are investment properties. The HHC is duly authorized to own investment properties located outside of Marion County, and in fact, it is not the only municipal entity to own real assets located outside of the county it serves. Also, I would refer individuals back to its state authorizing statute cited by "D" which gives the HHC very broad authority to "do all things reasonable or necessary to carry out the work and perform the corporation's duties under this chapter." Owning investments which produce funding to support its core mission most certainly would fit within this last broad grant of authority. But, here's the final nail in the coffin for to any claim of a supposed violation of law: Please read Indiana Code 16-22-8-37<br /><br />"Territorial extent of corporate powers<br /> Sec. 37. The powers, authority, and duties conferred on the corporation and the corporation's officers and employees under this chapter extend throughout the county and may extend outside the county on terms and conditions the board prescribes that are consistent with this chapter.Septlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08641416292413589183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-33908857887215050202009-07-22T08:34:04.231-05:002009-07-22T08:34:04.231-05:00Thanks for bringing this into the daylight, Gary. ...Thanks for bringing this into the daylight, Gary. I would like to know how this fits into their budget - income and expense. I cannot say that I have heard any discussion on this nursing home investment at the Council's muni corp committee hearings on H&H budgets. I must be one of Septly's condemned.<br /><br />Regardless, it does seem a stretch for it to own Homes outside of its treatment area. Those cannot be claimed as adjunct to their core mission.jabberdoodlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12773449819475280421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-49872202864097475252009-07-21T15:08:35.373-05:002009-07-21T15:08:35.373-05:00Thanks D, I'll look it up. The only problem f...Thanks D, I'll look it up. The only problem first blush is that I could not find anywere in the set of statutes I cited that muni corps in Marion County were excepted out. Therefore, the 4 mile statute could still apply to HHC-MC unless there is a specific statute in the chapter you cite that says the 4 mile rule doesn't apply to a Marion County muni corp. Just the fact that it isn't listed in the Marion County muni chapter (which I'm assuming it isn't) wouldn't necessarily mean the legislatures intent is the 4 mile rule doesn't apply to Marion County.Paul K. Ogdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137003328850866711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-3991265470659035172009-07-21T14:42:00.113-05:002009-07-21T14:42:00.113-05:00Gary, not everything is a conspiracy in Marion Cou...Gary, not everything is a conspiracy in Marion County. I know how much you despise Bob Grand and I don't blame you one bit. But, as a former Wishard employee and someone who still gets his health care at Wishard, i can tell you that the need for a new facility is a no-brainer. And no, the other hospitals in the county cannot absorb the 120,000 ER visits annually. 100 year old hospitals simply cannot provide care effectively. You may not need Wishard, but those who do and those who are saved by the world-class trauma and burn teams are sure thankful Wishard does what it does. I'd be happy to show you around the facilities sometime and you can see firsthand why the need is so great. Look not at the lawyers and politicians, Gary, look at the tens of thousands of patients and 4200 employees who need Wishard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-7856472852378374372009-07-21T14:18:58.869-05:002009-07-21T14:18:58.869-05:00Paul K. Ogden said...
Septly, what authority ...<i> Paul K. Ogden said...<br /><br /> Septly, what authority does a Marion County Municipal Corporation have to buy nursing homes all over the state?<br /><br />6:53 AM EST</i><br /><br />IC 16-22-8-6<br />Creation; powers<br /> Sec. 6. (a) There is created in a county containing a consolidated<br /><br />city a distinct municipal corporation known as "The Health and Hospital Corporation of _________ County".<br /> (b) The municipal corporation, in its corporate name, may do the following:<br /> (1) Sue and be sued in a court of competent jurisdiction.<br /> (2) Enter into contracts.<br /> <b>(3) Acquire and dispose of real, personal, and mixed property by deed, purchase, gift, grant, devise, lease, condemnation, or otherwise.</b><br /> (4) Make and adopt appropriate ordinances, regulations, orders, rules, and resolutions.<br /> (5) Do all things reasonable or necessary to carry out the work and perform the corporation's duties under this chapter.<br /><br />IC 16-22-8-37<br />Territorial extent of corporate powers<br /> Sec. 37. The powers, authority, and duties conferred on the corporation and the corporation's officers and employees under this chapter extend throughout the county and may extend outside the county on terms and conditions the board prescribes that are consistent with this chapter.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04396326144115748778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-70029472136193386342009-07-21T06:53:44.309-05:002009-07-21T06:53:44.309-05:00Septly, what authority does a Marion County Munici...Septly, what authority does a Marion County Municipal Corporation have to buy nursing homes all over the state?Paul K. Ogdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137003328850866711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-52048928723545834952009-07-21T06:16:50.172-05:002009-07-21T06:16:50.172-05:00Septly, you describe the nursing homes as being ca...Septly, you describe the nursing homes as being cash cows. I've spoken to private nursing home operators who complain about the difficulty in turning a profit these days. Census counts are down at many nursing homes because of policies pushing people into alternative care and inadequate Medicare/Medicaid payments to cover actual costs.Gary R. Welshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15185079937305083438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-41123749273985620062009-07-21T03:09:40.036-05:002009-07-21T03:09:40.036-05:00What I find to be "amazing" are the the ...What I find to be "amazing" are the the strange insinuations by the author and the bizarre comments left so far. Artfuggins, you left an unintentionally intelligent comment. The HHC owns a chain of nursing homes largely to be able to fund its LEGAL mandate to provide indigent healthcare. The plan IS to build a new Wishard without raising taxes. Do you know that the nursing homes the HHC owns are cash cows and that these profits WILL help build a new Wishard by allowing the bonds issued to be paid off? Also, the fact that the HHC owns nursing homes is no state secret. Anyone who pays attention to their local government rather than writing gossip-monger blogs would ALREADY know the HHC owns a chain of nursing homes. They are discussed at public meetings and the Star has in fact reported this fact before in various other articles. Of course, it comes as a "revelation" to the clueless. I can always rely on Hoosiers to live up to my expectations to be some of the most stupid, paranoid people on the planet. Nonetheless, I still have confidence that enough people in Marion County will see the light and pass these bonds to get a much needed new facility built. I will personally work to help get this measure passed through, whatever it takes, and I know so will many other community members. When you have that kind of determination behind you, you are unstoppable.Septlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08641416292413589183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-55399976038272790212009-07-20T23:46:47.304-05:002009-07-20T23:46:47.304-05:00Gary, look at IC 36-1-4-18. Thatstatute limits th...Gary, look at IC 36-1-4-18. Thatstatute limits the power of a "muncipality" which, includes a municipal corporation, to 4 miles outside its corporate boundories. That 4 mile limit statute specifically includes the powers municipal corporations have to acquire real and personal property (IC 36-1-4-5) and to develop, maintain, etc., that property. (IC 36-1-4-6)<br /><br />I just don't think it's legal for HHC of MC to just go around the state purchasing nursing homes. Of course, HHC employs B&T...you know they would fail to look up the law would they? FYI, that was written with sarcasm.Paul K. Ogdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137003328850866711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-7319248023160092402009-07-20T23:08:16.554-05:002009-07-20T23:08:16.554-05:00This is an absolutely unbelievable revelation, Gar...This is an absolutely unbelievable revelation, Gary. The fact that these muni corporations have been allowed to operate without hardly any oversight is evident from the fact I bet that not a single member of the Council knew what HHC was doing owning these nursing homes throughout the state.<br /><br />I would have to wonder though whether laws have been broken. As a muni corp, the legislature has granted health and hospital certain authority to carry out a mission. That mission does not include owning nursing homes throughout the state, I guarantee you.<br /><br />I can't thank you enough for breaking this story.Paul K. Ogdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137003328850866711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-19762192992545045222009-07-20T22:35:23.632-05:002009-07-20T22:35:23.632-05:00Let's say just for the sake of argument that W...Let's say just for the sake of argument that Wishard's building is in fact falling apart and not a result of management allowing maintenance (or not spending the money for maintenance) to go the he**. I've seen this mentality over in the Land of Lincoln with schools. If the school boards quit maintaining schools, the voters will approve building us a new one.<br /><br />The timing couldn't be worse in this case. Here the federal government is proposing a massive revision in the entire health care system, with a likely increase in federal government dependence for health care finance. We have no idea what the final product will be of said legislation even if any Representatives or Senators bother to read it (that is if it passes). What if under the new federal system that health care reimbursements across the board are lowered to the levels that Medicare currently pays? Is there a guarantee from the federal government of a set amount of revenue for what would be mostly traumatic injury and indigent care?<br /><br />Any revenue projections the HHC is doing now might as well be tossed out the window with this federal reform on the horizon.<br /><br />I assume the rhetoric with HHC claiming "no taxpayer money" is used to pay these bonds is similar to what the Airport Authority used to sell us on the new terminal - "No taxpayer money" but we pay for it through increased fares. Granted we don't have a government program paying for our airfares. We could, however, soon have a government program paying for our healthcare. If the federal payments for services rendered at the new hospital fall short of present projections then what? a HHC bailout??<br /><br />Yeah. That's what I thought.Sir Hailstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16301073859882785758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12703782.post-48106370680022272602009-07-20T19:53:41.983-05:002009-07-20T19:53:41.983-05:00Let the nursing home profits build the new Wishard...Let the nursing home profits build the new Wishard.artfugginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05364503656694166926noreply@blogger.com